A locost style track car, Car9

[horizenjob]

Sorry for the slow updates. There is lots of progress happening, much of it is less visible because it's detailed or involves discussion with possible builders or suppliers etc.

There are significant improvements in the drawings. I'll try to list some of them.
- roll bar cross brace goes to the top of the bar now
- most of the differences between the Lola and Seven versions have been consolidated
- bracing added to support the rear of the diff and the fuel cell
- front bulkhead is simplified, improved. Coilover relocated behind this bulkhead
- brace for roll hoop bulkhead and seat belt mount added
- named the tubes in the drawing
- Much work on a Miata version, uprights, wishbones and pickup points added in their own layers
- fuel cell from KInetic Vehicles is accurate now (he sells a JAZ 10 gallon tank at a discount)

At the moment we have 2 committed builders with a couple more at least casually interested. I have found 2 businesses that are interested in bending up the tubes, one on the west coast and one locally. Car9 uses 4 tubes that are bent into hoops and the lower chassis rail (and possibly the upper) chassis rail is also bent. The main roll hoop is a bulkhead with suspension mounts and the front bulkhead also contains suspension and steering rack mounts. So the main roll hoop may be welded up with it's cross braces and the front bulkhead welded up also. This will make fitting and filling in the rest of the tubes easier and seems like a good starting point for building this car.

I think there is about $450 worth of steel in the roll cage as a very rough estimate. The rest of the tubing is a good amount cheaper depending on whether a builder opts for round or square tubing etc. Square tubing could be as much as 1/4 the price.

[horizenjob]

The design seems to have settled down a good deal. There are details left but I don't seem to feel a need to rearrange the tubes very much. Now's the time to speak up if you think we need any changes!

The big news now is that builds on a couple of these cars are starting. I am very excited about this! Most of the public discussion on this car has been on the LocostUSA.com website. The two builds are my own and someone on the west coast, a LocostUSA forum member who goes by "SeattleTom". SeattleTom built a beautiful Ultima, but now finds he wants a track car more suited to the rigors and risks of real track use.

We're starting with a set of tubes that are being bent up by a local fabricator and occasional COM racer named Charlie North at his shop: http://ffmsd.com/. If you click on the formula car pictured on his web site you will see the excellent work he does with tubing. The tubes that Car9 requires bending on are the main hoop, dash hoop (inner and outer tubes), rear bumper/roll bar support (2 tubes) and frame rails. These will be made from high quality DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing suitable for the main chassis and roll cage elements.

There may be more parts like wishbones and suspension bulkheads on the way too as our builds progress.

If any COM members are interested in a car like this, now is a great time to get a set of these tubes. Charlie will be making 2 sets already and another set or two would take little additional labor. It will also save on steel purchase and delivery costs. A tube frame car like this will perform very well with even the most modest street car parts used from a donor. You can spend thousands and thousands fixing up a street car or you can just have a better car for the track and keep your street car without wearing it out...

[horizenjob]

I've been going thru the SketchUp drawing and duplicating the tubes with bends onto a separate area of the drawing with a grey background and attaching dimensions to them. These parts match the ones in the car and they and their dimensions change automatically with any final adjustments to the drawing. I also attached revision numbers and dates to them. Steel is on the way and the bending will commence in a few days!

One last change suggested by Charlie was to kick up the bottom chassis rail just before the main roll hoop to match the transition from floor to diffuser. It's going to weld up better this way and looks a bit nicer too.

It's looking to be just a few hundred dollars for the roll cage and basic frame tubes with bending, if anyone is interested in a set. There is no profit here, just the cost of the tubing and labor.

I would like to point out again that this project is an "Open Design", so please contribute your thoughts! This means you are not locked into a vendor and one designer's opinion on how to do things. There are multiple body styles available already. There is a lot of work that has gone into suspension and chassis design and a great deal more on the way. No kits offer this combination of possibilities, the performance potential and tuning options are enormous... In some sense a conventional kit is more complete, but you get to apply the profit made by a kit manufacturer towards getting what you really want from your own efforts and/or the efforts of local fabricators you choose to support.

[horizenjob]

So we're not off to the races yet, but we have got to the "feet wet" stage. Charlie North put up a couple of pictures on the LocostUSA site showing the start of tube bending for Car9. This is the first tube being bent, it's the main roll hoop and is going to a gentleman in Seattle. He built an Ultima a few years ago and it's such a nice car he finds he babies it. This one will be a different story.

The second set of tubes will be for my car and there is a possible third set on order too.

You'll notice in the back of Charlie's shop is an Elva body, a very pretty vintage sports racer. COM may land up being a vintage sports car club one of these days, at least if you want to go fast

[horizenjob]

Slot A, Tab B, that kind of stuff...

The front bulkhead, chassis rails and some of the basic structure being tacked together.

[horizenjob]

Some more progress pictures, almost starting to look like a car. Here we have the rear hoops and a support for the main roll hoop rear braces. Also the inner dash hoop and a diagonal inthe footwell.

[Grippy]

Hey Marcus, it has been a while, how about an update?

[horizenjob]

Hi Gordan, thanks for asking. I'm gllad I saw this I haven't had time to to read here much this summer.

Well let's see - there is good news and bad news. Let's start with the good news. There is a builder on the west coast and he has a build log on LocostUSA.com http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 35&t=14613 if you go towards the end of his log you can see he is doing beautiful tube fitting and welding. I am lucky to have him as a builder.

I am trying to get restarted on my project. The pictures you see here are work that was being done for me by someone that I hired. It seems he thinks some assortment of terrible things about me which I have no idea what they are but the upshot is he stopped returning any calls or replying any emails. He did cash a few checks though... I had a goal to order a bender and some tubing in September but day by day my work schedule is making it hard for me. It's frustraing, one would think you could settle accounts and move on one way or the other...

I really, really want this car going next year. So hopefully we can get more progress going soon.

[962porsche]

well my friend you could have hired me to build the chassis for you . i'm sure my quality of work would be more than fine and i'm only a short drive way not 3000 miles so working together becomes easier .
i'm also sure we could have worked together on pricing too . i return phone calls and if i get pissed i tell you why i'm pissed to work the problem out !

[horizenjob]

Hi David! Maybe we'll talk, I'm still trying to figure out what to do. I didn't explain well the fellow in Seattle is a co-builder. He got his tubes for the cage bent and shipped to him. He is now well along on the frame. Here's a couple of nice pictures.

[962porsche]

it looks like the work is good .
why is it taking so long to build the chassis ?
were you looking to sell the chassis as a you weld it in a kit form ?

[horizenjob]

Yes, Tom is doing great work filling in the frame. We both bought our bent tubes from the guy who was doing the welding on my cage. Tom just got the tubes shipped to him. I wasn't happy with where the guy doing my work was putting holes in the frame for suspension mounts and then I had a mistake in my drawings for the angle of the upper rear facing hoop. I guess he got frustrated.

I think Tom would be well ahead of where he is now if my frame was ahead of his, which was the intention. The main hold up was finalizing the tubes that are within the main roll hoop for the rear suspension and diff mounts. I have learned again that the last %5 of a project can take a lot of time. I'll post some pictures of where that stuff is now, but it will probably take a day.

This was made harder because I didn't completley understand the rules for cages in tube cars. The main roll hoop doesn't have to extend to the floor, just to the frame which in this case is by the driver's shoulder. So it would have helped if the tube from the driver's shoulder to the floor could kick forward just 3 inches or so. It gives more room for the lower contgrol arm and move the inner attachment of the upper link backwards a bit. I think I will draw that up and see how it looks. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

I'm not really thinking of making a tube kit, but the drawings and parts lists and our build logs are all available for people to look at and use. If the car runs well, it would be fun to offer a tube kit... I love those videos of laser tube cutting machines. They can do perfect coping and then even label the parts for you with arrows and directions!

[962porsche]

on the race engeering forums we have talked about the roll over hoop and how many rules of them were or are writen for chassis builds .
it seams that by some rules you have to make the main roll hoop all one piece down the the floor if your not building in a halo hoop that ties into the main front legs .
i found the FIA rules are the best to go by when it comes to full chassis builds .
were the main hoop does not have to run down to the floor as long as there are fore and aft legs that tie into the top half of the main hoop .

[horizenjob]

What can I say, hope springs ever eternal… Going to start this thing over from scratch.

This is what I wrote for the build log on my LocostUSA thread:

So here is an official start of my build. Feel free to pull up a lawn chair, watch and even have a drink. My only warning is that if you choose to watch, you may land up laughing so hard you need a change of clothes. If you're lucky it's because you spilled your drink, our audience is a friendly bunch and there will always be more.

My frist thought after carrying in all the stuff in the picture is that steel is heavy. Steel is so heavy in fact that it weighs hundreds of pounds. There may be a follow up order to obtain littler bits. All the material was purchased over the web from Online Metals and delivered to my house.

My garage is full of stuff and it was dark outside so the material got carried to my basement. It's warmer there so with impending winter the car may get built there and then I could jack up the side of my house to get the car out. Or cut a hole or something but I think looking forward to too many problems will just just slow me down, so we will go at this a few days at a time.

[zchris]

Well, conceptually you have a cool project in the works. But I've got to ask, with the first failed attempt, the new bender, and the pile of material on the floor, how much $ do you have into this to date. And aside from this being cerebral therapy, in the final analysis, does this make sence. Could you have purchased a good used car instead. Don't get me wrong, I understand some poeple, including myself, need to climb mountains.
Chris