Official 2014 Street Prepared/Prepared/Super Class Thread

[blindsidefive0]

If some of this "rules" energy could only be applied to getting the licenses processed,everyone would have had theirs the day they paid their yearly dues...

This issue has been addressed here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4338&start=15#p36398
Note that these licenses and membership packets are being taken care of by volunteers, i.e. those willing individuals who donate time to keep the club running.

If you don't like it, I suggest you volunteer.

[blindsidefive0]

Read carefully

Yes, please do because you have totally misconstrued what I said.

[dtlemoine]

Read carefully back a few posts, when it was indicated they researched cars based on the past 5 yrs of COM data to develop the classes, they looked at time spread ... then called it a class & worked the rules to define the cars in that range, you are in fact bracket racing now it is just called Touring ... the proposition based on a time structure last year was simply saying use a say 4-6 spread - see who runs in that window - call that a class of x - y, you dominate you move up a time range ( no rules, simply based on the performance as seen in reality, as the timing system was in place to generate the necessary data) all the rules did was create a whole bunch of stuff to effectively do the same thing .... from what I have seen most classes right now have a min. spread of 6 sec. w/ the majority being 7-8 sec. and the remainder up to 30 sec. bracket racing w/o the terms ......but, let's not get off topic as Touring is what Touring is

You keep mentioning that you're seeing 4-6s spreads from top to bottom this year, and that it indicates the classes are too broad, or perhaps cars are classes incorrectly. Keep in mind COM is a club full of ALL abilities, there will always be a spread of results in a single class; a safe-to-solo student on the track for his 2nd day ever could easily turn a lap 20s slower in a T70 car than one of our seasoned instructors in a T40 car. Spreads in results are natural. Additionally, without knowing everyone in a class' exact points, you can't say for sure whether someone might be at the "bottom" of T50 with another 7 or 8 points to spend on power/suspension mods - certainly those points could net the driver at least 1-2 seconds, before factoring in their driver mods.

Finally, with regards to spreads, I took some time to run standard deviations on lap times within each class from a few events. Comparing apples-to-apples I took 2 NH events with similar warm dry weather - the standard deviation at the 7/2 NH CC event last year, averaged across all classes with at least 2 participants, was 3.26. This year's 6/2 event, had an averaged standard deviation of 2.8.

What this tells us is that the results from THIS YEAR's event were more tightly coupled than last on average across all classes. So, whatever you're eyeballing and interpreting as a wider range of results is statistically false.

[breakaway500]

"If you don't like it, I suggest you volunteer." Thanks,Nick. I believe you guys have everything under control. Keep up the thorough work!

[jeffw]

If some of this "rules" energy could only be applied to getting the licenses processed,everyone would have had theirs the day they paid their yearly dues...

That's a cheap shot.

Plus there are different people working on different aspects of the club.

You're always welcome to volunteer.

[breakaway500]

"That's a cheap shot." Poor excuse for levity on my part,nothing more.

[paultg]

I've tried to follow all this but all i can get out of it is this summary:

A small number of folks in the prepared classes don't want it to change. Their argument in general is that the hp/weight type system being proposed can't be fair to all participants, so there is no way it can ever work (even though I'm not aware of an actual rules system that can be fair for all participants when you consider cars selection, car prep, and driver ability combined, I think the jist of this proposal is to make it more fair, not perfect).

What I'd like to know is how big these classes are now in terms of competitors. Are the folks discussing it here a large majority or not? How do we move forward on this subject? It be nice to hear more suggestions on tweaks to the proposal instead slamming the door shut also. For the folks in here that are currently not interested in the proposal, is there anything you would suggest modifying (in lieu of don't change anything)?

What’s next: We would like to have an open discussion about the option of Super Classes beginning both on this forum and at the upcoming NHMS2 event. With membership cooperation, we will reach out to identify potential Super Class competitors this weekend to do a “mock class run” either during the timed practice sessions and/or TT in addition to the official time trial results. We will then post the results and continue the discussion. At this point everything is up for grabs, so constructive input is welcome.

Maybe I missed it, but how did the "Mock Class Run" work out at the last event?

breakaway500 (Mark): In terms of your "TO" class idea; maybe I'm not catching the finer details but I think there would be concerns with drastically different cars/drivers/lap times on course together in a run group during practice. I guess I'm not sure how this TO class would fit into how the current event days is planned out with classes/groups. Also, with the new timing system COM has, couldn't you just decline to participate in the TT in order to not compete? You would still have every lap timed throughout the event if timing/scoring doens't run into issues.

Paul G.

[blindsidefive0]

Paul - here is the post with the results from NHMS2, it's all the way back on page 1: http://comscc.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 376#p36407

[paultg]

Oops. Sorry. I think it be really great to continue with mock results for the remaining events. I would guess there be a better turnout of competitors at WGI and maybe Calibogie. Hopefully good weather too!

[962porsche]

I've tried to follow all this but all i can get out of it is this summary:

A small number of folks in the prepared classes don't want it to change. Their argument in general is that the hp/weight type system being proposed can't be fair to all participants, so there is no way it can ever work (even though I'm not aware of an actual rules system that can be fair for all participants when you consider cars selection, car prep, and driver ability combined, I think the jist of this proposal is to make it more fair, not perfect).

What I'd like to know is how big these classes are now in terms of competitors. Are the folks discussing it here a large majority or not? How do we move forward on this subject? It be nice to hear more suggestions on tweaks to the proposal instead slamming the door shut also. For the folks in here that are currently not interested in the proposal, is there anything you would suggest modifying (in lieu of don't change anything)?

What’s next: We would like to have an open discussion about the option of Super Classes beginning both on this forum and at the upcoming NHMS2 event. With membership cooperation, we will reach out to identify potential Super Class competitors this weekend to do a “mock class run” either during the timed practice sessions and/or TT in addition to the official time trial results. We will then post the results and continue the discussion. At this point everything is up for grabs, so constructive input is welcome.

Maybe I missed it, but how did the "Mock Class Run" work out at the last event?

breakaway500 (Mark): In terms of your "TO" class idea; maybe I'm not catching the finer details but I think there would be concerns with drastically different cars/drivers/lap times on course together in a run group during practice. I guess I'm not sure how this TO class would fit into how the current event days is planned out with classes/groups. Also, with the new timing system COM has, couldn't you just decline to participate in the TT in order to not compete? You would still have every lap timed throughout the event if timing/scoring doens't run into issues.

Paul G.

yes me too i have tried to follow this and kind of feal the same .

i stopped competing in FP because with the rules for that class it just does not work . there is no sense in run the time trials when i'm 6 to 8 seconds slower that all the other cars in the class . as a matter a fact i have been going to the track with other clubs insted of comscc for the last two years because of that fact .

[n1gzd]

My mg midget which still has its 55 hp stock engine would be in PC (same class as Fred F) instead of T30. I dont really care about this (car not really being built for COM) but is doed demonstrate a hole in the classing.
Rebecca

[breakaway500]

^What mods have you done to have to run the MG in PC? Just curious..
When I started with COM,I was told my Focus would have to run in PB because I had cut the fenders,which at the time did seem pretty funny,considering I would be running against Sport Racers and highly modded cars. So,I installed a rollcage and bought a firesuit etc. and ran in PB. It did leave room for a LOT of tinkering...which has been fun..

[962porsche]

there should be a T20 class my mazda AZ1 i would like to take to the track because it could never get registered for the road . i also have old 1973 and 1974 bugs that would fit into a t20 class were they would not fit in t30.
i also own a smart roadster coupe that would make a fun little track car but that too along with cars like the midget are out classed in t30 so why take them to the track with comscc ?


maybe for the upper classes rules should state motor side weight limits and other things like that just as they do with classing cars in wheel to wheel racing . then you build your car to the given rules insted of how things are now with comscc . when i was running my spec 944 that was all stock but the spec 944 suspension and gutted interior that car has put into spc . in no way should that car be a spc car .

[McMahonRacing]

" McMahonRacing wrote: Read carefully "


" Nick wrote: Yes, please do because you have totally misconstrued what I said. "

I don't think so, maybe you better explain it again ... maybe then I can understand ...... this is prob, about the point I bailed on the discussion last time, as soon as the comments started going south ..... maybe this is better left that we agree to disagree & I'll just stay in NASA w/ their so called rules, at least then I don't have to wait patiently for a point bye ....... best of luck w/ your new system, bowing out.

[Stynger]