Rules for 2013

[nateh]

In my opinion, the absence of fenders should be a point-adder, not a classification changer.

[Georgethefierce]

I just have the one question on pure race cars....there are 2 classes? SA and SB? and the only thing that matters is power to weight and tires, correct?

[McMahonRacing]

Bruce .... not really concerned for myself ( I have been told SB w/ 365 chp & SA w/ the 530 chp motors -- the spread sheet backed that up ), what I am concerned about is that basing any system soley on a cars potential ( w/ x, y, z components ) is going to leave quite a few folks out and end w/ a he who can spend the most $$$ to max. the rules wins program, basically what we have now .... to me that removes the main element of being a "Club" ....

Class all the FFR Cobra's together, I think there are about 4 at present & all w/ more power than my little motor ... what would happen there, I just don't see it being "fair" to those folks at all and I honestly believe that will happen in the Touring group as well, there is no way it is solely a "kit car" issue ......

FYI ... my car is street legal in NH as well, carries plates, insurance & an inspection sticker - just slip the windsheild in & I am good to go ... thing is I didn't find anything in the Touring section to address a Ford Cobra ( 1967 427 Cobra would prob. weigh about the same as mine or less & carry about the same hp & it was a production car ) or a replica there of ... so I just assumed it was "Super" ....

[kfoote]

Again sounding political, I see the new plan as being more inclusive to all, and a way to allow the much more diverse variety of track-capable cars that can be had now to find a competitive place to play vs. the small selection of "sports cars" running in the 60, 70s that formed the original basis for the current classes we have. As I've said before, the past 10+ years of "rules creep" has created a situation where most of the SP cars aren't street legal, and most of the ST cars are track -only because the arms race to be competitive has made them unfriendly for street use. This points based system puts more power in the car owner's hands to modify as much or as little as they want, and still have a place to compete,

Most of the competitive SP cars haven't been street legal in the entire time since I started running in 1996. SP was never intended to be "street cars", it was intended as "street cars that had been turned into track cars over time", under the rules basis of "could theoretically be converted back to street use". There was a big battle in SPA when I first started between Frank Perron and Grove Marcy, both in cars that were very far beyond any sort of streetability.

Though the original basis for the levels of preparation has it's basis in the 60's, they have been adjusted over time to be more relevant for the cars that are actually showing up. The "ST" preperation level was added in the 80's, and major reorganizations of the cars to be more relevant to what was actually showing up has happened at least twice in the last 30 years.

[Chrispy]

I just have the one question on pure race cars....there are 2 classes? SA and SB? and the only thing that matters is power to weight and tires, correct?

In the current proposal there are three super classes for race cars, lowest to highest, SB, SA, and SU.

It addition to power to weight there is also an adjustment for tire type (DOT/non-DOT), tire size, drive-train layout (engine placement), and drive-train type (FWD/RWD/AWD).

It is proposed that fenders are required in all classes except SU.

[McMahonRacing]

Super - - Tire portion of the spread sheet I was given by one of the authors does not work as you describe .... so still making some assumptions, but can't see tire size making a significant change esp. w/ some cars not having a pre-defined size form a mfgr. .....

Agree w/ Nate, fenders ought not to cause a class change ..... certainly not fair to at lest three drivers I am aware of ..... like an Atom/Legend/FR500 -- do we really think they should be competing w/ Bruce, as it is we should basically hand him FTD @ the gat ewhen he arrives ..... I can't seem to cathc him for the life of & it isn't from lack of effort either, he's just plain fast w/ a fast car ......

[Chrispy]

For Super class tires are easy. If size < 275 you get a 0.5 credit. If type is DOT you get a 0.5 credit.

I basically agree with you on the fender issue, I think the intention was to direct Formula cars to SU but the wording catches everything without fenders such as the Atom, Lotus kits etc.

[paultg]

I agree 100%. But imo something this big should go before the members for vote/approval.

So being a board member on my home association has now put me on both sides of the fence now, and we only have 150 owners. I'm going to have to disagree with you only because of the size of the club and the effort put forth for something like this is huge.

Whenever we ask for input at home; we get a handful of folks who actually evaluate it and care; a bunch of folks who couldn't give a rates ass and don't vote, and another handful of folks who just want to say no to anything the association has tried to do (in this case cause they are old and cranky), so it becomes a complete waste of everyone's time; and you eventually loose the members who are trying to actually help out cause they give up.

We elect board members because we are looking for them to make decisions for the club in the interest of members. If they are to ask permission every time a big decision comes up, nothing will ever get done.

Paul G.

[bhoss]

+1 good post Paul

[McMahonRacing]

As I mentioned the function on the sheet I was given isn't working ... thi sis just when you use the "Super" section ....
Also, is 275 sq ... many of us run 315 or 295 & 275 or 275 & 245 ,,,,,

[C5toSM]

Thank you Paul. I have been stewing on this all day and could not have said it better.

The level of effort involved here is MONUMENTAL for an all volunteer group and it is remarkable that we have gotten this far. Kudos to Nick, Pete and Paddy. I think that IF there is significant resistance at the next event that should give us pause but I would be very surprised if that is the case.

At the end of the day we have a very dedicated group of people given a great deal of time to this effort because we all care about the club. I am not only speaking of the authors, the Board, officers and chiefs. But of all the folks that have contributed so thoughtfully to this thread.

I am looking forward to seeing the new system put to the test next weekend.

John Spain

[Chrispy]

As I mentioned the function on the sheet I was given isn't working ... thi sis just when you use the "Super" section ....
Also, is 275 sq ... many of us run 315 or 295 & 275 or 275 & 245 ,,,,,

For Super class cars tire size is anything goes. You just get the bonus 0.5 if "all" tires are "smaller" than 275, 275 or larger comes out neutral.

[Resolution78]

so im the new guy here...... but as my job permits i most likely be around for most of next year until my submarine i work on starts going to sea again......

im still not sure which class my boss 302 will run in, a-stock would be the norm but, i have a CAI, long tube headers, new mufflers.... with the current tune about 430RWHP..... a tiger racing hood

either way im waiting to see where i fit in and what i can do to become more competitive in my class...... the fastest car wins,.... well even nascar has rules restrictions..... it promotes creativity.....

anyways.... i look forward to whatever rules come out.... unfortunately this upcoming weekend i can only hang around for Saturday as i have a prior engagement for Sunday.\\

as far as newbies...... when i started running auto-x with the ct cart guys they had a decent system i thought..... novices were in 2 basic groups one for more race prepped cars which i was put into and one for pretty much stock cars ..... if you win once you have to move into the correct class for your car...... or after 3 events you must move into a normal class......you no longer a novice..... i won my second time out by less than half a second... and since i have moved into my class there and keep trying to see what i can do to catch they guys running 1 second faster than me still

[Chrispy]

so im the new guy here...... but as my job permits i most likely be around for most of next year until my submarine i work on starts going to sea again......

im still not sure which class my boss 302 will run in, a-stock would be the norm but, i have a CAI, long tube headers, new mufflers.... with the current tune about 430RWHP..... a tiger racing hood

I put you in T90 with 6 points to spare.

[DanDarcy]

My poor little 190 hp 2200# Lotus Elise also falls into T90 -- I think I will need another car or add a supercharger.

As far as a time or bracket class, I'm only suggesting those for novices or non competitive drivers. Kind of like bracket racing at the drags. At the last event in the highly competitive ST4 class there was a 21 second difference between fastest and slowest. New rules will not cure this time difference but a few time classes would allow some competition for our slower drivers.