2012 Dates

[wizzman]

So to be clear, option 2 and 3 would mean there would be two separate time trial events?

[Wain Trotter]

Hi folks! As a new member, I'll see you all at Mosport for our first run in the '99 Miata. What a gift! Mosport is almost in my backyard. Have a great Christmas, see you in July
Regards
Wain

[chaos4NH]

Will we be doing the relay again? There was no mention of it.

We want the relay!

[WillM]

I believe all of us on the BoD are planning on running the relay at our July event. We'll discuss the rally and/or other options as the date draws closer. Right now we're concerned with our points system and how members liked it (or didn't) during 2011.

The BoD will soon decide on how to handle championship scoring. Based on last year's survey, we went with a "drop 1" event, where the best 7 of 8 finishes counted toward the championship, and the lowest-scoring (or a missed event) was not included in the points tally. The reasoning being that not everyone can make it to all 8 events, even those that plan on it.

The only reason that we asked about the July event in this survey, is that the survey is an exact copy of last year's. Member feedback is always welcome though!

[chaos4NH]

I believe the BOD has spoken. In lieu of any evidence to support the original intent of encouraging more participation, the BOD has voted to use ALL points from each event attended during the season. Our thoughts were that if we pulled points from one (or more depending on the total events for the year) event, we were penalizing those who paid their dues and attended the events.

[boltonite]

I believe the BOD has spoken. In lieu of any evidence ...

Here are the survey results:

Count ALL events ......... 89 (11 students, 56 licensed, 22 instructors)
Drop 1, 2 or 3 events .... 114 (20 students, 71 licensed, 23 instructors)

FF

[WillM]

I believe the BOD has spoken. In lieu of any evidence to support the original intent of encouraging more participation, the BOD has voted to use ALL points from each event attended during the season. Our thoughts were that if we pulled points from one (or more depending on the total events for the year) event, we were penalizing those who paid their dues and attended the events.

After a lot of lively discussion, a vote was finally taken. The vote was a close one. Those that wanted to use all points only slightly out numbered those that wanted to "drop 1 event" as we did (for the first time) in 2011.

I must say that I continue to be very disappointed about this. As Fred mentioned, and as we discussed at the meetings, the majority of members who responded to the poll were in favor of dropping at least one event. The appearance is that the BoD asked for member feedback and then ignored it. While there was a lot of discussion, I don't think there was any convincing, at least not among those that wanted to keep all of the points. Some thought the poll was either inconclusive or flawed. From what I recall and the outcome, I believe the vote could have been held 4 months ago and the outcome would have been the same.

I personally believe that class championship points should be calculated by:
1. All Participation Points should be kept. Participation Points are earned by a competitor that participates in an event. If you cross start/finish once for the time trial, you earn your participation points and keep them. Competitors can earn 2 articipation Points at NHMS and 4 Participation Points at 'away' events. That is why 1st place at NHMS is worth 11 points (2 Participation Points + 9 Finishing Points) and 1st place at WGI is worth 13 points (4 Participation Points + 9 Finishing Points).

2. All Finishing Points EXCEPT the lowest one (or two) should be kept. Finishing Points are earned by competing in and 'placing' in a time trial, for example, 1st place is worth 9 points, 2nd place is worth 7 points, etc.

Those that want to 'keep' all points for every event think that 'dropping' points penalizes participants for attending events. The comment I heard most often was "why should we TAKE AWAY points that participants have EARNED?". The two other reasons to 'keep' all points is that:
A. Dropping points is too difficult for the members to understand.
B. Dropping points is too difficult for the scorekeeper to keep track of.
C. The majority of members don't really care one way or another.

Those that want to 'drop' points for at least one event think that 'dropping' points helps to promote competition within the club, because:
A. Not everyone can make every event. Turns out that the world continues to rotate outside of COM events. Sometimes there are family and/or work obligations that keep us from COM events...but just because we can't be there for all 8 events doesn't mean that we don't want to be there, and that we don't want a chance at the big trophies at the end of the year.
B. Not everyone that CAN make it to every event wants their class championship to be a perfect attendance award. I'd say that the overwhelming majority of class champs want to earn it!!
C. Everyone could use a mulligan, and if everyone gets one, then no one has an unfair advantage.

While I believe that every BoD member cast their vote with the best intentions of the club at heart, I don't think there were enough votes that represented what the club members wanted. As members of the board, the liveliest debates we have usually happen when we try to balance our personal beliefs with those of the members that elected us to office.

On a positive note, Nate Hine proposed the club award a trophy for most consistent driver at each time trial event. This passed with unanimous support.

[SEISAN]

Will,

Regardless of the vote, I want to thank you for taking the time to explain how the vote went and the reasons for it. Whether you are for it or not, if it is important to you, attend and voice your concerns at a board meeting. We have them every month.

Bob

" S n B "

[Chrispy]

Thanks for arguing the point Will. It was nice to be able to miss an event due to a prior obligation without having to sweat over how many points you were going to lose, or god forbid have a mechanical issue that causes you to drop out of an event. C'est la vie. I'm sure the issue will probably come up again next year

[Mario Fallas]

Will,

Regardless of the vote, I want to thank you for taking the time to explain how the vote went and the reasons for it. Whether you are for it or not, if it is important to you, attend and voice your concerns at a board meeting. We have them every month.

Bob

" S n B "

DItto, personally i think you guys do a fantastic job & i thank you for it
you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time

[paultg]

I believe the BOD has spoken. In lieu of any evidence ...

Here are the survey results:

Count ALL events ......... 89 (11 students, 56 licensed, 22 instructors)
Drop 1, 2 or 3 events .... 114 (20 students, 71 licensed, 23 instructors)

FF

Can you let us know how many received the survey? I'm always interested to know as we don't ever have enough votes/participation at our annual home owners association meeting.

Will, thanks for the explanation/update. - Paul G.

[n1gzd]

I somehow missed the survey. Although I don't feel stronly about this issue (I am just trying to have fun and become a better driver). However, I am in favor of counting everything so that it encourages participation.

Rebecca

[brucesallen]

I somehow missed the survey. Although I don't feel stronly about this issue (I am just trying to have fun and become a better driver). However, I am in favor of counting everything so that it encourages participation.

Rebecca

I seconded that motion.

[Brendan]

Sounds like it's too late for this year, but I voted in the survey and was in the "Drop" category. For me personally, keeping every event actually discourages my participation. Here's my argument from my personal vantage point:

There is no possible way I can make every event. I cannot use 50-75% of my vacation days during a year to go to COM Events and take up the big Holiday (read, family) weekends of the summer too. Maybe 7, more likely 6 even if everything goes perfect. If I know I'm "out of the running" because we're not dropping any, then I'll probably end up skipping another event, two, or even three at NHMS because it isn't worth it to me (Let's be honest, NHMS sucks compared to our away tracks, it's just that it's close and pays the bills for the club...)

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the effort that the BOD and all of our club officers put in, but I agree with the sentiments Will put forth.

[TroyV]

This is all speculation I'm writing here...but I think it could both encourage and discourage participation. I would find it encouraging to the folks that are committed to coming to every event, and chase after trophies. It could be discouraging to those people that cannot make every event. In knowing one has no chance for a class championship, one who isn't crazy about NHMS can also look at the remainder of the schedule and make other choices for locations to run with other clubs and strike their participation even further. There are lots of veteran COM members that avoid NHMS events now. Add to this the fact that they must do all of them to have any chance of taking a championship, and it can be even more of a deterrent.

As for me, I chose to run all of the events in 2011 because with the size of the my class, I had a very good shot at the driver championship if I did well. I completely blew off my wife for the entire summer to do this and the various other events I do. I'm going to guess that a lot of members aren't graced with that level of flexibility. I'm not even sure if I'll have that kind of latitude in 2012. For the person that is so committed to the club and to the chase for a championship, the drop one allows someone that isn't as serious about it/committed to it (for whatever reason) to be in the mix for a trophy, even though their commitment is less. I can imagine someone being very disappointed if they had lost by one or two points after running hard for 7 events to a person that had done 6.

I still prefer the drop one for the reasons Will noted. My feeling is that the folks that are committed to running all the events are still going to regardless of it. They are crazed lunatics that need to have their insatiable thirst for seat time satisfied regardless of the structure. They either beg their SO's to play, like I do....or they seemingly drag them out to events and make them participate whether they want to or not. (you guys that do have got to tell me your secret btw)

It really comes down to what one wants. You want a trophy? Drive your ass off and come to every event. You want to do other summer activities aside from this one? Do them, but don't expect to be in the chase. If you are fast, you can rest easy in the knowledge that you can crush your enemies when you do decide to come. (...and see them driven before you....and hear the lamentation of their women...etc..)