Non-DOT Slicks

[nateh]

Nick -

Any rules change wouldn't be in effect until next year.

Perhaps you'd be lucky enough not to set a record, or be protested by your class-mates. Seems to me like a worthwhile risk in order to experience the track and have some fun!

- Nate

[betelgeuse]

Nick,

You're welcome to use the wheels/tires I used in practice but you'll have to come up to my house and pick them up.

Greg

[naschmitz]

I have seven Pirelli Grand-Am scrubs enroute. We'll see if $100 a tire shipped is a bargain or not. I'll keep a set of R6s for time trials to be SPA legal.

If I ran in PA this year I'd have five wins instead of four and I would have just set a new NHMS lap record. On DOT tires.

Seems like a rule that might have made sense in the past that doesn't make sense today.

[chaos4NH]

So would this be able to go into effect at NJMP? It could potentially dictate whether or not I will be going. All I have left are the Conti scrubs and my street tires are at the wear bars.

Rule changes can be made via a rule change request that must be acted upon by the BOD. I feel badly that you would not run at NJMP, but the rules were clear when you opted to buy the non-Dot tires. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have no problem with running non-Dot tires during open track sessions (as I have done and others may also have done), but for the time trials, the rules must be applied equally, i.e.: DOT tires for those classes that require them and ALL must adhere to.
As David says, bending the rules can become a slippery slope.
IMHO

[savage217]

I understand rules are rules and I can understand why this would not go in effect until next year. However, I really hope this does go into effect for next year as almost everybody in this thread and who I have talked to in feel as though the rule should be changed. As Bert said, the rule seems to be outdated.

Greg, I appreciate the offer very much but I will not do that. You have helped me more than enough this year.

As for the track record, wont everybody who sets first place in their respective classes set the track records? It would be funny to have a track record on street tires

[Mark Swinehart]

Not everyone that comes in First Place gets their car reteched - for various reasons.

The track record will go to the fastest driver in each respective class that successfully has their car reteched per the rules.

[kfoote]

The big problems I have with the Pirelli Grand-Am slicks for anything short of Prepared are the following:

1. They are a true race tire.
2. They are only available in a limited number of sizes, meaning that if your car can't fit an 18" wheel with a significantly larger outside tire diameter than what most vehicles run stock, you're out of luck.
3. When new, they are faster than a Hoosier A6, and they slow down significantly enough that there would ba a noticeable drop off from the start to the end of a 30 minute session if the tires were new to begin with.
4. There is no good way to word a rule that you could only use these tires when used past the point where the speed is out of them
5. At $500 a tire new, they're not a bargain to gain the extra 1-1.5 sec a lap, and have to buy a new set for each time trial.

As been stated by others, in a practice session, I have no issues with running them, but I do not think that they should be legal to time trial.

[naschmitz]

The big problems I have with the Pirelli Grand-Am slicks for anything short of Prepared are the following:

1. They are a true race tire.
2. They are only available in a limited number of sizes, meaning that if your car can't fit an 18" wheel with a significantly larger outside tire diameter than what most vehicles run stock, you're out of luck.
3. When new, they are faster than a Hoosier A6, and they slow down significantly enough that there would ba a noticeable drop off from the start to the end of a 30 minute session if the tires were new to begin with.
4. There is no good way to word a rule that you could only use these tires when used past the point where the speed is out of them
5. At $500 a tire new, they're not a bargain to gain the extra 1-1.5 sec a lap, and have to buy a new set for each time trial.

As been stated by others, in a practice session, I have no issues with running them, but I do not think that they should be legal to time trial.

Name someone that would spend $2000 an event on tires to exploit this proposed rule change. If you can't think of one person, then this hypothetical argument based on an extremely unlikely possibility shouldn't prevent me and others from running $100 scrubs in a time trial.

[savage217]

Name someone that would spend $2000 an event on tires to exploit this proposed rule change. If you can't think of one person, then this hypothetical argument based on an extremely unlikely possibility shouldn't prevent me and others from running $100 scrubs in a time trial.

+1

[Shawn624]

The big problems I have with the Pirelli Grand-Am slicks for anything short of Prepared are the following:

1. They are a true race tire.
2. They are only available in a limited number of sizes, meaning that if your car can't fit an 18" wheel with a significantly larger outside tire diameter than what most vehicles run stock, you're out of luck.
3. When new, they are faster than a Hoosier A6, and they slow down significantly enough that there would ba a noticeable drop off from the start to the end of a 30 minute session if the tires were new to begin with.
4. There is no good way to word a rule that you could only use these tires when used past the point where the speed is out of them
5. At $500 a tire new, they're not a bargain to gain the extra 1-1.5 sec a lap, and have to buy a new set for each time trial.

As been stated by others, in a practice session, I have no issues with running them, but I do not think that they should be legal to time trial.

Name someone that would spend $2000 an event on tires to exploit this proposed rule change. If you can't think of one person, then this hypothetical argument based on an extremely unlikely possibility shouldn't prevent me and others from running $100 scrubs in a time trial.

So, only $500.00 race tires should be excluded from time trials? What are "scrubs"? Could you get some "scrubs" with only a lap or two on them for more than $100.00 but less than $500.00? Could a Z06 win every STGT event even if it had the plastic wheels from a Big Wheel on it? Those don't seem like hypothetical arguments (except the last one cause I know those huge brakes wouldn't fit under those little plastic wheels )

[savage217]

I am not sure where you can get "scrubs" for other cars but for me many BMW race distributors such as Turner Motorsport and Bimmerworld I believe both sell these.

I think it is important to note that the scrubs take even longer to warm up because they are an endurance tire. People running these are probably only going to have 2 decent timed laps which is unfortunate to them but if anything, better for the competition.

[chaos4NH]

I am not sure where you can get "scrubs" for other cars but for me many BMW race distributors such as Turner Motorsport and Bimmerworld I believe both sell these.

I think it is important to note that the scrubs take even longer to warm up because they are an endurance tire. People running these are probably only going to have 2 decent timed laps which is unfortunate to them but if anything, better for the competition.

"

If your competition tires are heated and at full grip on lap 2, or 3, how is that "better" for the competition? It only takes one fast lap.

Another angle: Who determines what "scrubs" are? Is it competition tires with 2 laps? Or 50 laps? Will they come with certification as to the number of laps and/or heat cycles? Too much room for error here.

At least DOT tires can be policed.

[joncowen]

So, what happens if Savage and i both take our chances and run the Conti scrubs? If no one from our class protests, does that mean we will not be disqualified? Will the organizers still allow us to run the TT?

If we do get protested, will we simply get a DSQ instead of a time? Would there be a way to find out our official time, just for our own use?

[savage217]

If your competition tires are heated and at full grip on lap 2, or 3, how is that "better" for the competition? It only takes one fast lap.

Another angle: Who determines what "scrubs" are? Is it competition tires with 2 laps? Or 50 laps? Will they come with certification as to the number of laps and/or heat cycles? Too much room for error here.

At least DOT tires can be policed.

Why don't we take the DOT tire rule out completely then? I really could care less if someone is running a true racing slick (I really doubt it will happen). If it allows the majority of us to buy cheap used race scrubs, I am willing to take that risk of being at a disadvantage and I am sure others will feels the same way.

[chaos4NH]

If your competition tires are heated and at full grip on lap 2, or 3, how is that "better" for the competition? It only takes one fast lap.

Another angle: Who determines what "scrubs" are? Is it competition tires with 2 laps? Or 50 laps? Will they come with certification as to the number of laps and/or heat cycles? Too much room for error here.

At least DOT tires can be policed.

Why don't we take the DOT tire rule out completely then? I really could care less if someone is running a true racing slick (I really doubt it will happen). If it allows the majority of us to buy cheap used race scrubs, I am willing to take that risk of being at a disadvantage and I am sure others will feels the same way.

Yep, you are heading down that slippery slope. Then it becomes a tire war and those $2000 race tires will decide the winner rather than a level playing field for those of us only able to spend $800 for new DOT tires.