Non-DOT Slicks

[naschmitz]

There are some widely available racing slicks from a number of vendors for Corvettes. Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear and Hoosier all offer them. If you believe the advertising hype and customer forum posts, these are supposed to be quicker and last longer than the DOT Hoosier R6s. The price for the Michelins are quite reasonable, and were only $20 more than a set of budget Kumho V710s when I priced them. Since my oldest daughter starts college next year, I am anticipating budget reductions in my 2011 time trialing program (I must be clairvoyant, huh?).

So thinking for next year, if I put these on my SPA car it would turn into a PA car, since SPA requires DOT tires. And then based on the other classing threads posted recently, would I be able to have a steward inspect my car and possibly waive the roll bar and window net requirements and compete in PA?

Or is it just simpler to practice on any available tire and keep a set of DOT tires on hand to time trial in SPA?

Thanks, Bert

[TroyV]

If it were me.....I'd just run the tire, and save the DOTs for the TT.. I don't think anyone here would object to that, especially given the economic concerns of the day. I'm not on the BOD, and can't really speak for them, but for the health of the club I would think a few of the rules could probably be bent a little in favor of the economic situation.......as long as those bends do not involve cutting corners on safety gear. I doubt you'd get protested for practicing on a non dot tire..

However......I hear that Trans-Am guy Joel can be a hard ass.... You might want to clear it with him first.

[Mark Swinehart]

He won't be at the Glen!!!!

[962porsche]

no ! you will need all the safety gear that the rules state to run in PA . we just went thru all this about the rx7 v8 swap car and the mustang with the subframe swap . i'm in the middle of swapping a chevy 350 motor into one of my 944's . that car will put me into PA thats the rule so i will build the car to that rule .

[jadams]

Ok since I was already quoted in this thread, I guess I will chime in. I didn't know I was a such a hard ass, but that cool I kinda like that! . Here's my take on it. If you were to run non dot slicks in the practice sessions, it technically would bump you to PA classifications by the letter of the law. But for arguements sake, no one will know the difference, so I highly doubt the it would matter and no one will say anything to you about it. But on the otherhand, if you run those things in the timetrial, then I am sure that someone will say something about it, and you would be bumped to PA. Then all your cost savings would be thrown out the window when you invest it in a cage, window net, etc, etc. So in summary, it would technically be against the rules, but no one will know the difference. No one is tech'ing your car when you enter the track, so as long as you can live with yourself for being such a rebel then I don't see anything wrong with it for practice sessions only. Now that you asked the question, it just opened yourself to being audited on TT days! . If you want to get tires that will last longer, just run something like an nitro nt01 and you will get more life out if them. Then run your tt with some hoosier r's and you would probably be better off. You would be completly legal and would be able to go faster in the timetrial from the increased grip.

My 2 cents,
Joel "hard ass" Adams

[John F]

I think you should go to PA, Bert

And since when are V710's considered "budget" tires?

[naschmitz]

If you want to get tires that will last longer, just run something like an nitro nt01 and you will get more life out if them.

The stupid Corvette fitment requirements eliminate a lot of good tires like the NT-01s. No 19" sizes, so no rears unless you buy new wheels. Even then, the rears have to be 1.0 to 1.5" larger diameter than the fronts and there are no 18" tires that meet that criteria with a wider rear tire.

So when I hear "longer lasting" and "quicker" than an R6 attached to a tire priced like a V710 and in a Corvette fitment, I say, "Wow, I'd like to try those."

[naschmitz]

I think you should go to PA, Bert

And since when are V710's considered "budget" tires?

In Corvette sizes, V710s are about $300 a set cheaper than R6s. R888s are way more expensive than V710s. In fact, the V710s are the cheapest tires, street or track, that I have ever bought for the Corvette. So "budget" is relative -- this isn't a Miata we are talking about (Miata's being the only logical, rational car to be tracking).

[TroyV]

I know I could get twenty lashes of the whip for saying this, but IMO, being realistic, it really only matters to your comrades in SPA as I think those guys are the only ones that can lodge an official protest against you at the appropriate time. As far as I can tell, the guys in SPA are damn cool, as is a dominant amount of the rest of the membership. Since you're not running them in the TT, it shouldn't matter. If you run slower times in the TT on your Dot tires then your competitors get a welcome surprise that you're slower. If you run faster times in the TT, then the non Dots are a slower tire, and are not a significant advantage using them for practice, except that they are cheaper to buy, therefore allowing your budget to extend and perhaps affording you to register for more events in total.

I submit this is not the same as the lack of a roll bar, or other primary safety based apparatus as mentioned in my first post. Yes, having a good tire is part of being safe, but if you see how much cash Bert burns on this activity, I'm sure even non dot scrubs on his car would be nearly new, and therefore just as good as a dot tire for track only use. I vote ya run what ya brung, then swap that shite and be legal for the TT. I may be presumptuous in saying this, but I wouldn't think twice about using GY scrubs if I liked how they felt (which I don't) and I'm sure none of the ST4 guys would give a crap if I ran them for practice, and ran toyos, A/R6's, or whatever Dot R for the TT.

....and even if a protest was lodged, what are they protesting? You are on the proper tire for the TT.

[breakaway500]

I believe the intention of race tires bumping you to prepared was primarily for safety,in an indirect way.It is not that race only tires are any more "dangerous" than a DOT tire,however they do open the door for higher levels of performance. Chances are,if you are running race tires,you are in a serious car,running very fast times,and appropriate safety equipment should be required. Just as some clubs do not allow R compound DOT tires for some run groups,I can understand COMS rule for race only tires being regulated to car classes with full safety equipment. I may not agree with it,but I do see the logic. If this were a democratic situation,I would also vote that Bert (or anyone) be allowed to use race only tires for practice.

[brucesallen]

Tech will know.

[chaos4NH]

Well, shame on me! I ran Hoosier Cup (non DOT for those not in the know) for practice run groups for a few events back in 2008, but switched to legal DOT tires for time trials. Hoooey boy, were those non DOT slicks great for tire wear, BUT they would have stunk in the TTs (3 -4 secs slower at Mont-Tremblant!). Ask Carl, who bought them from me and tried them on the RX8. All in all, I see no problem with running them in open run groups, but reserving the DOTs for the TT.

[savage217]

In my opinion this rule has many flaws to it. The main problem being the fact that a major budget tire that is somewhat accessible is the Continental slick from the Continental Tire Challenge series. This slick is not DOT approved however it is a radial tire and was created for endurance purposes and races. They are documented by many people on the forums to be slower then Hoosier R6's simply because of the compound difference. They were built to last for many sessions and therefore will not be and are not as fast as an R6. I am going to submit a rule change for tires like this. If anything, you are at a disadvantage for running this tire. The only reason we buy these is because they are dirt cheap.

-Nick DeRosa
Car 305 SPB

[joncowen]

I am in the same situation. I currently have a set of Continental scrubs on my track wheels. I used them for practice at the last event, and intended to use them for the TT, but i was informed that i would be protested, per the rules.

The tires are very nice to drive on, but not nearly as fast as an R6. They are probably similar to an RA1 or Nitto in terms of performance. However, a whole set of scrubs is less then 400 bucks shipped to my door. I havent used the whole set yet, but i have heard they will go at least 5 track days, and not heat cycle out significantly until they cord.

Personally, i am not competing for trophies at this stage. My car is way out classed, and even if i learn to drive the snot out of it, it will likely never win. I'd like to be able to run the Continental tires for practice and TT, mainly due to the cost reduction.

Here is the rule change i submitted this morning:
Rulebook Section:
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XI. Street Prepared 8. Tires
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Old Rule:
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Tires must be DOT approved, with no undertread showing (for safety reasons) and either be listed in THE TIRE GUIDE or available in 3 or more rim diameters. RECAPS ARE NOT ALLOWED.
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New Rule:
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Tires must be DOT approved (see exceptions below), with no undertread showing (for safety reasons) and either be listed in THE TIRE GUIDE or available in 3 or more rim diameters. RECAPS ARE NOT ALLOWED.
Exceptions:
Grand-Am Continental Racing Slicks -
Reason: These tires have an endurance compound, and are known to be significantly slower then a DOT Hoosier R6, and are made from the same carcass as the R6. They are also very inexpensive.
****************************************
I'd like to see other opinions on this subject as well. If you are a prepared competitor, and agree with this rule change, please submit it.

[naschmitz]

The Continental tires aren't available in Corvette sizes, but other non-DOT scrubs are. I'd like to see the whole non-DOT thing erased. None of them are faster than an A6, but who has the money to go through those?