Non-DOT Slicks

[joncowen]

The trouble with that is, there certainly are non-dot slicks that are faster then the A6s. Some considerably faster, or so i have heard. Maybe not widely available, and cheap, scrubs that you are referring to, however. My rule suggestion is for a specific tire only, which is very easy to police, since it is the only tire and compound made by continental (it's really made by hoosier), except for street tires. The tires are very easy to spot, and cannot be mistaken for another type of slick.

Removing all DOT requirements means some guys can come in with hoosier bias ply slicks and blow everyone's doors off.

The grand-am tires do come in 275 size, in both 17 and 18. Will those fit the vette?

[offcamber09]

I disagree that the non-dot slicks are necessarily faster than dot race only tires. The dot legal race tires available today are incredibly fast even in very cold ambient temperatures. Most slicks I've used (Goodyear and Hoosier) take a good amount of time to get up to maximum grip. For a time trial- if the budget allows- you would use an autocross tire like the A6 because it will be ready to go after the warmup lap. Big slicks might be ok for the 3rd lap.
As far as the dot tire rule goes, I've found the Koni-cup Hoosiers to be pretty crappy compared to the R6. They do last longer, but are not as fast (unless you are a pro driver that makes our lap times look bad regardless). For budget reasons I do see the rationale in running them in practice and if someone wants to run them in a TT- I would be in favor of it. That rule doesn't apply to me, for now, but I would encourage someone to submit a rules change.

[savage217]

^^^

As Jon already posted, he has already submitted it. I will do the same.

[joncowen]

I disagree that the non-dot slicks are necessarily faster than dot race only tires. The dot legal race tires available today are incredibly fast even in very cold ambient temperatures. Most slicks I've used (Goodyear and Hoosier) take a good amount of time to get up to maximum grip. For a time trial- if the budget allows- you would use an autocross tire like the A6 because it will be ready to go after the warmup lap. Big slicks might be ok for the 3rd lap.
As far as the dot tire rule goes, I've found the Koni-cup Hoosiers to be pretty crappy compared to the R6. They do last longer, but are not as fast (unless you are a pro driver that makes our lap times look bad regardless). For budget reasons I do see the rationale in running them in practice and if someone wants to run them in a TT- I would be in favor of it. That rule doesn't apply to me, for now, but I would encourage someone to submit a rules change.

I am OK with this opinion. And to clarify, i would be perfectly fine with the full rule change to allow all non DOT tires.

However, to suit my needs, it seemed simpler to allow a single exception, given that we have lots of experience and it is common knowledge that the koni cup, grand am and continental series tires are indeed slower, and would not provide an advantage. I figured it would be a lot simpler to get that part in the rules then it would be to allow all non-dot tires.

Again, if you feel this rule change is worthwhile, i would appreciate your support.

[jeffw]

[quote="joncowen"
However, to suit my needs, it seemed simpler to allow a single exception, given that we have lots of experience and it is common knowledge that the koni cup, grand am and continental series tires are indeed slower, and would not provide an advantage. I figured it would be a lot simpler to get that part in the rules then it would be to allow all non-dot tires.
[/quote]

What happens if we allow the koni cup, grand am and continental series tires and then the compound changes next year so that they are significantly faster?

[joncowen]

^ Good question. Didnt think of that. However, i find it extremely unlikely, as the organizers want to slow cars down, not speed them up. Plus, they have been supposedly using this same compound for at least a few years now. hmm. Hope that doesn't kill the chances of my rule change!

[savage217]

Jeff,

That is a good point however like Jon mentioned, this compound has stayed the same for a while now. When the series was the Koni challenge, the tire was identical to the Continental tire now. To my knowledge the compound/tire has always been made by Hoosier but the name changed when it became continental. I don''t see why they would look to change the compound now.

[kfoote]

However, to suit my needs, it seemed simpler to allow a single exception, given that we have lots of experience and it is common knowledge that the koni cup, grand am and continental series tires are indeed slower, and would not provide an advantage. I figured it would be a lot simpler to get that part in the rules then it would be to allow all non-dot tires.

What happens if we allow the koni cup, grand am and continental series tires and then the compound changes next year so that they are significantly faster?

I think this is better as a single exception rather than a general rule, but I agree with it in this case. I have a LOT of experience with these tires, so here is a little history on them:

The tires run in the Grand-Am Cup series have the same construction as the Hoosier R03 from the late 1990's.
The rubber compund is harder than any DOT tire that Hoosier offers.
The speed and wear of the tire is similar to that of a Toyo RA-1. The Cup tires are a little faster when new, and a little slower after a few heat cycles, and have about the same life.
At the beginning of this year, the tires were re-branded as Continentals, but for the first few races, the only differences were that they said "Continental" on the side, and the direct references to Hoosier in the mold on the sidewall were hand-ground off.
Starting with the Lime Rock race in 2010, a new mold for the tires was used, making these a full slick. However, the construction and rubber compound was the same, they are still manufactured at Hoosier's facility in Indiana, and the tires are not significantly faster.
The rain tires are identical to the equivalent Hoosier Wet tires except for the branding. I'd have no problem seeing those approved for SS/ST either.
These tires are going to be continued to be used in the CTSCC 2011 season. They have their hands full developing the Rolex tire, which will be all new for next year.

If for whatever reason the powers that be want more technical info to back it up, come see me at the NHMS 4 event. I don't have it handy, but I can probably get whatever other information would be needed from Continental.

[savage217]

^^^

Great post. Thanks for the info.

[962porsche]

i totally disagree with the proposed rule change . it should remain as a dot tire class if you want to run a none dot tire move up a class . just becouse you can AT THIS TIME pick up a set of cheap none dot tires does not meen it will always be that way and will or could open up a pandor's box down the road !!!!!

[savage217]

^^^

All we are proposing is for the Continental slicks to be made legal because of all of the information provided.

[betelgeuse]

If all they are is a dot legal tire with a different compound I hve no problem with this rule change.

Greg

[jimmacsrx7]

I run GA Pirelli GT slicks,not Koni/Continatial slicks. I also picked them up used from Daytona race because of price and longevity of the tire. I personally timed GT cars at the 24 and pro drivers times would not change by more than a half second on a 1 hour plus stint.
I believe a A6/R6 or V710 would be quicker for a 3 lap run,but thats not in my budget yet
I do not know how much better the GT slicks are but I do know that it seems more development time goes into the construction of the tire. If you pay attention to the weight of the cars and the times they pick up like the GM Camaro prep1 car I imagine you could make a time gain by matching your hp/weight to a coresponding tire.

Jim McNamara
___________________
#30 Mazda RX7 PA

[kfoote]

The Pirelli Rolex slicks are a true racing slick tire, and are not what I would consider to be in the spirit of SS/ST rules. Aditionally, with the physical size of the tires being much bigger, there would definitley be an advantage to a car with the few tire sizes being able to run the Rolex Pirellis. Even though they have a relitively hard rubber compound for a slick, when new, they should be faster than any DOT tire currently available. Also, at roughly $500 each new, for a tire that slows down significatly after 2 heat cycles, they're not economical.

[savage217]

So would this be able to go into effect at NJMP? It could potentially dictate whether or not I will be going. All I have left are the Conti scrubs and my street tires are at the wear bars.