Window nets and PB

[cuda6666]

Thanks, Sam

[ChrisS]

On another note, we had a very upset driver at our Oct 25/26 event because he was told to return to the pits for his arm restraints. He was driving an open car and sputtered that SCCA didn not require them. Is that true?

In level 1 / PDX they are not required per 3.1.3.4 of the TT rules for a street legal car. Beyond that you need them.

"Drive a vehicle which meets the inspection required in TTR Section 9. Proof of current Annual Tech Inspection in Time Trials or Club Racing shall meet these requirements. Window net and arm restraint requirements are waived for cars that meet the definition of street legal. Street legal is defined as a car which meets local requirements for inspection (if applicable) and the car in question possess CURRENT, VALID license and registration. Vehicles that are not street legal must be eligible for classification in the GCR classes of Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, Touring, or Improved Touring, or the Solo classes of Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared, or Street Mod. No vehicles that are prepared beyond these allowances shall be permitted to participate. Open wheel cars are not allowed. All cars MUST have a passenger seat with a 3 point seat belt, both meeting DOT requirements as a minimum. Passenger seats with the same safety equipment as the driver seat are highly recommended."

[chaos4NH]

Thank you Chris. I apologize for hijacking the thread a little. I was sure, and am now positive, that the Spec Racer needed arm restraints in SCCA.

[cuda6666]

Just to unhyjack the thread, I did submit a rules change proposal relating to window nets and arm restraints. Any comments?

Old Rule:
****************************************
A window safety net must be installed to prevent the driver\'s arms and/or head from protruding through the window opening, unless the car is topless.
****************************************

New Rule:
****************************************
A window safety net must be installed in hardtop vehicles equipped with roll cages. Arm restraints may be substituted for window nets in cars equipped with roll bars, where installation of a window net is not practical. Arm restraints may also be substituted for window nets in topless vehicles.

The reason for this proposal is the following:

• 1. The Prepared rules do not make roll cages mandatory.
  2. Window nets are currently required in all Prepared hardtops.
  3. Window nets cannot really be safely installed in cars that don't have roll cages to attach them to.
  4. So, in effect, the window net rule makes roll cages mandatory in Prepared.

I'd like to see a bit more flexibility to accomodate sedans that for one reason or another end up in Prepared, and are equipped with roll bars, but no cages.

[breakaway500]

^ Sounds like a great rule change to me!

I have a roll bar,but no cage,and had to mount my nets to the roof supports,and the bottom to the door. PITA...

I would much rather the arm restraints.

[jlwhorf]

I already submitted a rules change to strike the window net requirement from P. The rational I used is that the average performance of the P cars is pretty much on par with the SP cars. And the only ADDED safety item required in SP in a helmet.

Jonathan

[nhsilversti]

And the only ADDED safety item required in SP in a helmet.
Jonathan

while that is true it has to be about the most scary statement i have heard in a long time.

i understand why it was done dosent mean i have to agree with it.

again in my opnion lets not remove safety items from P classes where you dont even have to use DOT tires. i like franks idea, weird huh frank!

ted

[cuda6666]

And the only ADDED safety item required in SP in a helmet.

Jonathan

Umm...I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. Is it me, or is there a word missing or something?

[cuda6666]

And the only ADDED safety item required in SP in a helmet.
Jonathan

i like franks idea, weird huh frank!

ted

What's "weird"? The fact that you like my idea? Or is it the convoluted COM rules?

[jlwhorf]

And the only ADDED safety item required in SP in a helmet.

Jonathan

Umm...I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. Is it me, or is there a word missing or something?

Oh, what I meant to say is: The only ADDED safety item required in SP is a helmet.

I was not trying to remove safety items from P, but to show the disparity in safety rules . Window nets hinder hand signals, and can be a pain to intstall on door slammers. I feel that arm restraints in coupes would make hand signals even harder to see than nets.

Jonathan

[DanDarcy]

A rule change to remove the requirement of window nets was submitted this year. It was voted on at the Nov. meeting and failed to pass. There was no provision in the proposed rule to require arm restraints instead of nets . I agree with Jonathan, that arm restraints would be worse for point byes than the nets, but we must all agree that many of the SP cars are faster than most of the P cars and since SP does not require a net why does P still require a net ?

[breakaway500]

It's much easier for me to point by with arm restraints than window nets. With a net,you must reach foreward to get your hand/finger out of the car,and it's almost impossible to point by to the right.(I have nets on the Focus)

With arm restraints,you can go directly to the side and point by. I can also point by to the right with the restraints.(I use arm restraints on the Atom)

[eastcoastbumps]

A rule change to remove the requirement of window nets was submitted this year. It was voted on at the Nov. meeting and failed to pass. There was no provision in the proposed rule to require arm restraints instead of nets . I agree with Jonathan, that arm restraints would be worse for point byes than the nets, but we must all agree that many of the SP cars are faster than most of the P cars and since SP does not require a net why does P still require a net ?

Honestly Dan, I think classing over all needs a revamp. Fast cars and heavily modified cars should require more safety equipment. Up until this year, adding a boost controller on a turbocharged car would also require a roll bar, firesuit, and harnesses. Removing those safety requirements in SP was the easy way of allowing more participants who own mildly modified cars to run with the club. IMHO, that wasn't the right way to do it, it was just the easy way. SP should be for heavily modified cars and the safety equipment should stay. The mildly modified SP cars should be allowed to run in a different class - hence a total revamp.

Some rules are asinine. And I'll admit to breaking them. I ran a piggy back ECU on my WRX in ST. It had the capability of controlling boost, but it wasn't programmed to, so what was the harm? I ran without a window net in PA. The car was a street car, not an all out racer, and I didn't have a place to mount it. And I don't mind if that dude in the Camaro uses Corvette brakes in ST. Or if the guy with a '98 Vette uses an '02 Vette intake manifold in SS.

I'm sure all the guys in Miatas are pissed about the E30 M3's and S2000's in SPC. And a WRX with a boost controller running in the same class as Teds STi? Thats crazy talk.

I think the solution is to move to a points based classing, similar to NASA. Allow the stewards more control of car classing. Let them move cars up and down based on their discretion.

[cuda6666]

A rule change to remove the requirement of window nets was submitted this year. It was voted on at the Nov. meeting and failed to pass. There was no provision in the proposed rule to require arm restraints instead of nets . I agree with Jonathan, that arm restraints would be worse for point byes than the nets, but we must all agree that many of the SP cars are faster than most of the P cars and since SP does not require a net why does P still require a net ?

OK, so a proposal to remove the window net requirement without substituting arm restraints was voted down. Is that supposed to mean that my proposal to replace the window net requirement with an arm retraint requirement has no merit?

[DanDarcy]

Frank: I didn't say your proposal has no merit. The purpose of the net is to hold your arms in in a roll over. The purpose of arm restraints is to hold your arms in in a roll over. They both do the same job Personally I would leave it up to the driver as to which they want to use Did you submit a rules change for that ?

I agree with you Pete , I don't like to see safty rules relaxed. I run in ST yet have a roll cage and wear a fire suit. I also have a net but can't seem to figure out how to install it with my swing out side bars on the cage. The club could go to something like is done in drag racing--- if you go so fast you have to have certain safety equipment , if you go faster you have to have more safety equipment Say at NHMS you have to have a roll bar if you do better than a 2:25 lap, if you do better than a 1:20 lap you have to have a cage, net, and fire suit, better than a 1:16 you have to have add a fire suppression system. Just my two cents worth