Rotors in SS

[davidz]

First, I wanted to thank everyone that helped us find a rotor for the Evo, and for all of the help getting a spacer and some washers to make the Mustang rotor fit well enough to drive home from Watkins Glen. I also wanted to apologize to my run group on day 2 at Watkins Glen for causing the black flag and being towed off with what was an avoidable mechanical problem.

Now that I'm home, I obviously need to buy new rotors for the car. I'm a little confused about the rules of what rotors I can run on the car while staying in SSGT. The rules don't say anything about rotors for SS, but I'm assuming that I have some options aside from buying another set of rotors from Mitsubishi.

While we have an Evo GSR that came with 1 piece rotors, the Evo MR comes with 2 piece rotors with aluminum alloy hats. Does this mean that I can buy 2 piece rotors and stay in SSGT? Do I have to buy the Mitsubishi 2 piece rotors, or can I buy something like Performance Friction 2 piece rotors?

If I have to stay with 1 piece rotors, can I buy something like Centric 125s, or dba 4000s?

thanks,
~Dave

[breakaway500]

VI: General brake rules:
B. Brakes
1. Wheel bearings will have minimal play.
2. Brake fluid reservoir must be full.
3. Brakes must be capable of stopping the car quickly and in a straight line. {imagine that!}
4. Street Touring, Street Prepared, and Prepared vehicles are strongly recommended to run braided brake lines. COM
drivers have experienced failures with new OEM flex lines while on track. Ford Mustang Cobra 1994-1998 must
not use “as delivered” front flex lines. Use of aftermarket cross-drilled rotors is discouraged

SS specific brake rules:

"Showroom Stock automobiles will compete in an "as delivered" configuration with preparations and modifications allowed only as
follows. In other words, if it’s not explicitly permitted here or in Section VI, it’s not legal in Showroom Stock. “As delivered
configuration” is defined as having been available from the factory for that model and year, or having identical form, fit and function
to the factory component. Options for a particular model of vehicle may be installed or removed in their entirety. This definition
applies whether or not a performance gain is derived from a particular modification."

Options allowed in SS:
A. Brakes
1. Any brake fluid, brake pad and/or shoes may be used. Braided stainless/Teflon brake lines may be used.

The rule basically says brakes must remain stock,but you can use any type of brake fluid,friction material and swap out the brake hoses for stainless/Teflon. It does not say you can use anything but stock rotors,so by the "rules" you have to use a "stock" configuration.
It does say you can fit options available for a "particular" model...so I would have to say the optional Evo MR style rotor configuration would be allowed.

Disclaimer:
Due to the way most COM rules are written,and interpreted.. I could be 100% incorrect...so I would consult with your attorney.

[dinoracer]

Dave

As usual, Mark does a good job of quoting the current rule book. However, in this case, I disagree with his conclusion.

The rules for SS and ST are clear, that if we don't specifically allow a modification, it is to be assumed that it isn't allowed.

In this case, your GSR came with GSR brakes, not MR brakes. So you are allowed to replace the rotors with the factory identical or aftermarket equal only; the 2-piece MR rotors are an upgrade in performance, so using them would bump you to ST. If the MR brake package were available as a factory-installed option on the GSR model, you might have a point of argument; I don't know Mitsu well enough, so you'd have to provide proof if asked.

If you elect to run in ST, then you'd be OK to swap in any better Mitsubishi brake package (from EVO or any other Mitsu vehicle) as long as it's bolt-in without custom brackets/mounts etc.

You don't have to get the rotors from Mitsu- I use Napa rotors on my Miata, $ 20-25 each and they are swapped every time I change pads.

[breakaway500]

Playing devils advocate here: (cuz you know,I really don't give a shit about rules... )

What is the definition of a "model"?

Rule says...."is defined as having been available from the factory for that model and year"

Isn't the Evo aka Evolution the model,and MR is just a performance option package for the Evolution?

Is a ZO6 a Corvette "model" or it totally a different "model"? How about Mustang...Mustang LX..Mustang GT,Mustang GT500, Mustang Cobra..???

How about The Subaru WRX vs. The Sti? What IS the "model" of a car?

I think of a MODEL of a car as in: a Mustang, a Camaro, a Firebird,an Accord,a Civic,a Miata etc, as the MODEL confiuguration, and LX,GT,SS,RS,GTS,SI etc as being a trim level or performance option package for a particular MODEL car. Is this not so?

[davidz]

Thanks for the help, guys. Sounds like running a factory identical aftermarket rotor or the same 1 piece rotor from Mitsubishi is my best bet. So, I'm going to start by buying a set of those.

Though, Mark's question "Isn't the Evo aka Evolution the model,and MR is just a performance option package for the Evolution?" is exactly what I'm trying to figure out here.

Subaru lists the "Impreza WRX STi" and the "Impreza" as different models, so with my STi I never wondered about this. Mitsubishi lists the Evolution GSR and MR as the "Lancer Evolution" with two different trim levels. So, for the "Options for a particular model of vehicle may be installed or removed." part of the rule book, I'm not sure if I can or cannot run MR rotors.

To clarify from Mitsubishi's brochure, the MR rotors alone were not available as an option on the GSR model. So, that makes me think that I can't run MR rotors. That said, if the MR trim level is considered an option on top of the GSR trim, maybe I can?

[Chrispy]

It gets tricky. I've generally been interpreting any time the rule book says "particular model" as your car as sold and originally equipped. If you want to update your trim level then I don't see a problem in that but be aware that it can result in a class bump by itself due to altered power to weight. For example a base model 370Z could update the car to have some or all of the sport package since they are classed the same.

[dtlemoine]

I've heard good reviews of the Centric stuff

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/results. ... odClar=GSR

They're inexpensive and pretty solid. I've installed on a friend's Subie and he's run them for a couple of years with no complains/warping/etc.

Generally speaking, no need for brake upgrades. With the right pads, your OEM brakes (w/ 1 piece rotors) should be able to lock up the tires no matter what type of rubber you're running. Other clubs (potentially including COM in the future) minimally assess BBKs because outside of an endurance race, they really offer little benefit.

[DanDarcy]

Hi Dave;
I'm glad all three of you made it home safetly with the mickey moused rotor.

The 2010 GSR has a model number of W8F while the MR has a model number of W5F the MR and MR Touring shar the same model number but the GSR is a different model number. You would not be able to use the two piece rotors unless you moved to ST class.As for replacement rotors , I like the DBA 4000 series. They have worked incredibly well on my Mustang and Lotus. The stock rotors on your car are Brembo which have a tendency to shear the rotor hat off. Your car was the second car to shear off a Brembo rotor at this past WGI event. DO NOT REPLACE YOUR ROTORS WITH THE STOCK ROTORS

[blindsidefive0]

I wouldn't ever protest you over brake rotors. As far as I understand it, my dad is usually one of your main competitors in SSGT - if he ever protested you, he and I would have a problem.

[dinoracer]

Mark

It's my belief, that for the purposes of determining what's legal within SS class, that we have to consider each car and it's trim level as the model.

here's a really over-simple example

Current 2012 Mustang models

6 cylinder

GT

Shelby

Put the GT or Shelby brakes on your 6 cylinder car, and you've updated/backdated within the manufacturer, but you move to ST. ( BTW, I'm not sure there is a difference between 6 cyl and GT brakes)

If you own the GT, and put either the 6 cyl or shelby brakes on, same thing

However, if you own a 2012 GT and upgrade your car to the Brembo brake package, which is an AVAILABLE OPTION on the GT, and I'd call that fair and keeping it in SS. Hell, if it's an available option on the 6 cyl, that would be OK too- stays in SS

IF you have a 2006 GT, and add the Brembo package, you'd move to ST because it wasn't an available option for that year ( if it fits with stock hardware/brackets) If you need special bracketry, you 'd be in SP territory.

I'm not looking to get into a big discussion about this, as we're looking at major rules/classing revisions now that would make this discussion t moot anyway.

Consider your safety first Dave. A better rotor, as long as it's the same size and thickness, isn't going to be a much of a performance adder, so there's little chance you will be called out if you have to go to a 2 piece.

[breakaway500]

"Consider your safety first, Dave." Seconded. I'm of the mindset if it broke once...it's not strong enough for what you are doing with it.

[962porsche]

i i were teching your car i would not DQ you if you had 2 piece rotors as long as they were the same size as stock and there were no performance gains from them .
if your car did not come from mit's with slots or drilled rotors then you can not run them in SSGT .


i do totaly disagree with the drilled rotor statement . there are many cheap after market ones that will crack and brake ! but there are many high quality ones out there also . it's not the fact that there drilled it's were there drilled . the cheap ones they will just drill holes were ever they feel like and it times the hole will not be centered in the vane so they will crack of brake . i have used high quality ones on my porsche and vw for years with noting ever happening to them . slots are to remove gas between the pad and the rotor the holes are for cooling the face of the pads .

[davidz]

Thanks for all of the help, everyone, and for re-emphasizing how much more important safety is than the car's classification and for putting this whole conversation in perspective

Given the safety concerns and Dan's strong endorsement, I'd like to run DBA 4000s on the car when it's on track, but they are listed as slotted. I guess I'll have to think about that a little more. For now, I'm putting a set of Centric rotors on the car for daily driving.

For what it's worth, I think that I agree with Tom's assessment of trim /model.

[chaos4NH]

I concur with Dan, Stock or direct stock replacements. That said, I stronly disagree with the Centric opinion. They wear and heat crack extremely fast. I was only able to get 4 events out of a set. As for inexpensive? Not in my book, I believe my set of 4 was around $175.00. I now run stock replacement type rotors at under $30.00 each and they last a whole season.

[dradernh]

They wear and heat crack extremely fast.

That happens when you drive too fast. It's hell on consumables. Slow down!