Hancook vs. Hoosiers = what's the story?

[StephanAlfa]

Since I corded my front left NITTO NT-01 at Mont Tremblant I was comtemplating changing into Hoosiers.
I also heard Hancook (sp) is coming out with a brand that is equivalent or better than Hoosiers.

What's the story on this?
Hoosiers or Hancook's?
Maybe even by one NT-01 for now...

[cuda6666]

How long did the Nittos last? I was thinking of trying them, but my RA1s are wearing like iron and still seem pretty sticky.

[StephanAlfa]

How long did the Nittos last? I was thinking of trying them, but my RA1s are wearing like iron and still seem pretty sticky.

I have been using them since the opening event at Watkins Glen, namely;
2 days at the Glen
2 Days in Calabogie (incl 1 spin )
1 day Mosport (spin was with Toyos )
1 day NHIS
1 day Mont Tremblant and only one tire is slighlty corded as all others are OK.
Based on my benchmarks I have:
Mosport = 2-3 secs over Toyos
NHIS = 1-2 secs over Toyos (on Chicane-chicane)
Mt Tremblant = 3-4 secs over Toyos.

[zip4zat]

Stephan,
Im doubting that the nt-01s are that much faster than the RA1s. I havent tried so I really cant knock 'em, yet. They are of similar compound and composition AFAIK. The RA1s are very heat sensitive above a certain temp where they just loose all grip. So in addition to comparing times, you need to compare conditions as well, unless you ran this comparo back to back.

Im surprised youve corded them already, but judging from the way your car rolls, I guess Im not that surprised. The subarus used to wear out the shoulders really fast too, being camber challenged from the factory.

Here are a couple threads from some suub and ex-suub racers (or at least wanna-bes, I cant tell anymore these days) about the 'Kooks.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1317987
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1306728

seems like a good bang for the buck, unless they do what Kumho did this year and jack the prices. I think thats why we see a lot of folks flocking over to the Kook camp, although, it seems pretty close to hoosier country

[StephanAlfa]

Stephan,
Im doubting that the nt-01s are that much faster than the RA1s. I havent tried so I really cant knock 'em, yet. They are of similar compound and composition AFAIK. The RA1s are very heat sensitive above a certain temp where they just loose all grip. So in addition to comparing times, you need to compare conditions as well, unless you ran this comparo back to back.

Im surprised youve corded them already, but judging from the way your car rolls, I guess Im not that surprised. The subarus used to wear out the shoulders really fast too, being camber challenged from the factory.

At Mosport I compared with day 1 vs. day 2 in sessions only. Day 1 in PM was very slippery and I was within 2-3 secs from track record.
Day 2 AM with Nitto I was within track record time. I mess up in the TT as I accidentally shifted the car in neutral at turn 5a ( ).
All other were Day 1 vs. Day 2. You are right it "could" have minor variances between these days BUT it felt faster in the Nittos than in Toyos.

Tks for the links on the subie club ... wow! calling the new tire "kookie" already ... how cute

[zip4zat]

Nice Stephan! from the sounds of it, I have to go steal Raj's nittos when hes not looking! Ive still been running on ra1s from last year that are more carcass than rubber at this point, but there's still smidges of rubber on them and the cords have some grip too..

I think more and more of the subie guys have been using the kooks over the last couple years cuz frankly they have been a LOT cheaper. Now that they're a little more proven, I guess it makes sense to price them accordingly.. Thats what Kumho did with the v710s when they first came out.

[WillM]

I've run the RA-1s and Hankook Z214. The Hankooks are stickier. While my average laps this year over last have dropped a bit, I can't attribute all of that to the tires. My car is all-new this year.

Stephan, I'd expect that the Nittos were/are slightly faster than the RA-1, but that the majority of time you dropped was a result of an improvement in driver skill and/or car setup.

Having said that, I've never run the Nittos. They could be the cat's pj's for all I know.

My impression of the RA-1, is that it has been a durable & fast tire for quite some time. Though Toyo would deny it, I find that the tires are faster than they used to be, and wear at a faster rate. The RA-1 has begun a staged phase-out, as it is being replaced by the R888 ("R triple-8").

If you are considering the Hankooks, the Z214 tire is the one you want. There are 3 compounds: C30 (now C31), C50 (now C51), C70 (now C71). I have yet to see it on the tires, but allegedly Hankook has dropped the last number from the compound, leaving them as C3, C5, C7.

C3 - Endurance (hard)
C5 - Road Race (medium)
C7 - Autocross (soft)

You want the C5's. Don't even think about using the C7's, unless for time-trial only. Unless it is a very cold day, and you are driving Ms. Daisy, the C70 compound will probably overheat within a couple of laps.

[skid vicious]

hi stephan,

I cant remember what size tire you run. 205/50 15? I was using the BFG g-force r1 the second day at tremblant and dropped 3 seconds over my day one time on the toyos. Of course it was my first time on that track and theres the day to day environmental variation. They feel pretty similar to hoosiers on the track.

Using the toyos as a baseline it doesnt sound like the bfg's are all that different from the nittos youve been using and are more of a hoosier price. 3$ cheaper than hoosier for 205/50 15.

I didnt look into the hankooks youll have to let me know how they are if you try them.

[mossaidis]

Hi,

I've been running kooks (c50 + c51) since the beginning of the season. I used 6 tires for 1 day at LRP, 3 days at WGI, 1 day at NHIS, 2 days at MT (with one NASTY spin) and about 20 AutoX runs. after the first LRP day, the front left was almost at 50%. So, in general, wear faster than RA1, but last longer than the hoosier. I've only run Kumho and Kooks, and can say that kooks are great in terms of stickiness.

At $157/tire, I would not recommend sliding down the hill between turn 2 and 3 at 106 mph at MT. Like hoosiers, flat spotting is a real problem. So, I lost the remaining 4, which were 50% tread. eeek!

Funny that you mention that will be not using the Nitto's, as I was considering buying a set myself. All in all, I think Avon's might be the best econmical/performance choice that I will make, though at 205/50R15 they stand at 23.3"!

Mickey

PS. Basic prices and specs for the kook z214:

http://www.philstireservice.com/pages/t ... kook_2.htm

[StephanAlfa]

My rims are 14" Mark.

As for the Nittos I like then. Just that the talks is that Hoosiers are faster (even if they take 2-3 laps to heat up) and then there was talk that Kooks are coming into the market with something similar or better than Hoosiers. This is where I am at now. Maybe for the rest of the season I'd just buy a coupl of Nitto NT-01 to finshu and then invest in Kooks or just start out with Kooks or Hoosiers and see the difference.
For my set up 205/55/14 either tire brand is going to be a good price. Question is which is better in performance/quality/economy.

[cuda6666]

Ya know, it kinda pisses me off that I have to feel bad about running RA1s when I know that Hoosiers are faster at $220 a pop with a life expectancy of two events. I'd prefer that we ban all DOT race tires in ST classes and below. Think of the money we'd all save.

[swinecanfly]

Ya know, it kinda pisses me off that I have to feel bad about running RA1s when I know that Hoosiers are faster at $220 a pop with a life expectancy of two events. I'd prefer that we ban all DOT race tires in ST classes and below. Think of the money we'd all save.

Sounds great in theory until someone shows up with shaved RE-01Rs, Azenis, MX's, KD's, Advans, Z212's or whatever the hot street tire of the week is.

[cuda6666]

Sounds great in theory until someone shows up with shaved RE-01Rs, Azenis, MX's, KD's, Advans, Z212's or whatever the hot street tire of the week is.

I'm guessing your point is that even with street tires, there would be a hot setup and that hot setup would be expensive. I guess so, but at least they would last about 10 times longer than Hoosiers.

[RyanC]

Heh not when they are shaved they won't last longer Plus you'd want a fresh set every time trial!

Steviebaby, you could do what Joe and I did last year (and he does this year) and run a set of hoosiers or V710s just for time trials, and practice on whatever else you decide on. I found a consistent 1.5 seconds on the 710s over the RA1s I ran at all tracks. It costs you another set of wheels and tires but your practice set will last longer and you can get the fast tires to go at least all season so long as you don't pull a Sandy or a Mickey and flatspot the hell out of them

[ctkag]

^^ Agreed - having the luxury of carrying another set of wheels & tires is pretty nice. 1 set (GACs) for practice & open track, 1 set of street/rain tires, and a set of stickies for TT. Studded snows for November LRP optional.