COM NHIS in July

[ctkag]

Raj should lose some weight to be easier on the brakes.

If Raj lost any weight we wouldn't be able to see him!

[brucesallen]

I do bleed the brakes after each event. If I use the Castro SRT fluid, would I sitll have to bleed it every time?

Yes, still must bleed if the calipers are getting so hot. That makes crud in the fluid that must be removed. But just a couple of squirts from each caliper should be enough to get the bad stuff out.

[tmak26b]

I do bleed the brakes after each event. If I use the Castro SRT fluid, would I sitll have to bleed it every time?

Yes, still must bleed if the calipers are getting so hot. That makes crud in the fluid that must be removed. But just a couple of squirts from each caliper should be enough to get the bad stuff out.

I wish I have a temp gauge on my rotors, I am curious to see how hot they get at the track. I need bigger brakes and a lighter car ahhhh

[Don P]

Any chance - tmak26b - to let us know who you are ?

And to further help with the brake situation you are having - how long have you been running with us, what is your rig, do you experience this at others tracks, and any other info that perhaps would help us help you with your braking.

[tmak26b]

Any chance - tmak26b - to let us know who you are ?

And to further help with the brake situation you are having - how long have you been running with us, what is your rig, do you experience this at others tracks, and any other info that perhaps would help us help you with your braking.

Howdy Don,

I havent run with you guys in a few years. I have a 350Z with the tiny brakes. I have done about six race tracks in this car. I get the fade at almost every track. The problem is not as bad at VIR due to the longer straights to keep the brakes cool. I do have the most aggressive pads on the market. The car does stop, but it just cant do more than three laps without nasty fades. I spoke to Carbotech extensively on this, they told me the only thing I can do is get bigger brakes since my rotors are too small for track application. Since I race my car stock, I really can't change rotors or anything. My times are definitely coming down, but I am definitely not doing enduro in this car anytime soon.

I don't know if I can say I am hard on brakes. I don't ride them like some drivers, but I do mash it hard at the limit. My stock pads lasted 35K miles with 200 passes at the autox on them. Race pads last 2-3 events tops

Tom

[Dave_G]

I have used Valvoline, the regular Castro, Nissan OEM and Motul. THey all had the same problem

Those companies all make different kinds of brake fluid. Just to clarify, are you using DOT 4 fluid? The wet boiling point should be listed on the bottle, and you want something in the neighborhood of 400F.

[enjoythemusic]

I wish I have a temp gauge on my rotors, I am curious to see how hot they get at the track.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produc ... RecId=4974

[grovefromnh]

Try using Wilwood 570' brakefluid. Fullrace pads need a long time to heat up to their operating temp. Running race pads on a stock car is making the brake system work too hard until they get hot. Try bending the front half of the dustshields outwards. That will allow cooler air to pass by the rotor. Good Luck.

[Don P]

I'd support Grove's recommendation. I used 570 in my 3650# Mustang and in my 2000# Miata without any issues. Also I would try either the appropriate Hawk Blue or PF 90 compound pads. Make sure you totally purge the system when changing fluid. Also to absolutely insure no air gets in "gravity bleed" the system. Open all bleeders and let gravity do its work (watch the mc carefully though)

After parts, it's braking technique. When leaving the hot pits for your warm up lap rest your left foot on the brake pedal to build heat into the assembly before you need to use them hard.

If you are a "banzai" braker, change that habit - remember start with slow in - fast out, then work towards fast in - fast out. Squeeze the pedal (hard), no stabbing.

Also maybe you'd be willing to have an instructor ride with you for one session, that way we all wouldn't have to speculate. Hope this all helps.

[tmak26b]

I wish I have a temp gauge on my rotors, I am curious to see how hot they get at the track.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produc ... RecId=4974

Interesting, do you apply that at the caliper or something? I wouldnt want that on my face of my rotor.

I have used DOT 3/4 fluids, I murdered them all. I think I might have to go crazy and get either the Wilwood or the Castro SRF fluid in order to gain an advantage. I will definitely bend the dustshield too in order to gain more cooling.

The problem with my car lies in the size of the brakes. My car is 3400lbs with 12.7" rotors in the front and 11.8" in the back. The pads are smaller than most cars too as the system came almost straight from the Altima. The car has no air in the braking system or any mechanical issues (except I kept melting the dust boots), I think I just simply max out the brakes as the Carbotech guys pointed out to me.

Don, I can build heat with no problem on my car, I just have to see how I can keep them cool. I really don't feel like losing my brake pedal going into west bend. My car is so consistent that I know I would experience brake fade in certain parts of the tracks.

Please feel free to ride along, I will probably join you guys at Lime Rock. I want to see if the new pads and fluids will get me even better times, I am shooting for a high 61 or low 62 at LRP.

[rajito]

Doesn't the 350Z use essentially the same braking system as the STi/Evo? If so, I don't see where you say that the brakes are small. The STi has the Brembo calipers and 12.7" front rotors as well, and weighs more. There's pretty much no venting provided for the brakes in the STi.

I usually bleed the weekend before a COM event and don't have any issues over both days. I'm using Motul RBF 600 brake fluid.

Perhaps somehow when you're bleeding your brakes, a small amount of air gets back into the lines?

Raj

[enjoythemusic]

Interesting, do you apply that at the caliper or something? I wouldnt want that on my face of my rotor.

Yes, paints on the metal surface of main brake component(s) (NOTE: not front pad or rotor face of course).

i tend to echo what others are saying in that you might have a combination of factors, small brakes and not enough cooling. Also, you made no mention if you are using steel braided brake lines.

Cooling is relatively easy to route ducts from the front of car and, perhaps, remove the dust shield or use them to accept the cooling tube (cut hole in dust cover, attach brake cooling duct).


My brake technicians work with 350Z track guys. See http://www.girodisc.com as they have floating hat rotors and Ferodo pads (my fave manufacturer). This might help to some degree with heat dissapation as their rotors have internal vanes that assist in moving air to cool them.

Like others said, it could also be your braking habits. Have an instructor ride along.

[tmak26b]

Doesn't the 350Z use essentially the same braking system as the STi/Evo? If so, I don't see where you say that the brakes are small. The STi has the Brembo calipers and 12.7" front rotors as well, and weighs more. There's pretty much no venting provided for the brakes in the STi.

I usually bleed the weekend before a COM event and don't have any issues over both days. I'm using Motul RBF 600 brake fluid.

Perhaps somehow when you're bleeding your brakes, a small amount of air gets back into the lines?

Raj

My bad, it is

Front Type Vented Disc, 2 caliper pistons
Rotor size diameter and thickness (in.) 11.65" x .95"
Rear Type Vented Disc, single caliper piston
Rotor size diameter and thickness (in.) 11.50" x .63"

It's actually 1 piston, not even 2 piston. The pads are even smaller. If I knew I need that much brakes, I would have paid the extra money for the Brembos.

[tmak26b]

That's a cool little product, I gotta try that once I find a new tenant on the new condo.

Car's 100% stock except for tires and brake pads. The brakes are just overused, I don't think racing fluid will help me other than buying me 2 laps. I guess I will just take the bullet and try the castrol SRF fluid.

I want to keep my car 100% stock, so probably nothing much except remove the backing plate for the rotors if they are easy to take out.

I don't doubt one bit my driving has something to do with it, but I sort of need the brakes for fast laps.

Interesting, do you apply that at the caliper or something? I wouldnt want that on my face of my rotor.

Yes, paints on the metal surface of main brake component(s) (NOTE: not front pad or rotor face of course).

i tend to echo what others are saying in that you might have a combination of factors, small brakes and not enough cooling. Also, you made no mention if you are using steel braided brake lines.

Cooling is relatively easy to route ducts from the front of car and, perhaps, remove the dust shield or use them to accept the cooling tube (cut hole in dust cover, attach brake cooling duct).


My brake technicians work with 350Z track guys. See http://www.girodisc.com as they have floating hat rotors and Ferodo pads (my fave manufacturer). This might help to some degree with heat dissapation as their rotors have internal vanes that assist in moving air to cool them.

Like others said, it could also be your braking habits. Have an instructor ride along.

[enjoythemusic]

That's a cool little product, I gotta try that once I find a new tenant on the new condo.

Always glad to help.

I guess I will just take the bullet and try the castrol SRF fluid.

Perhaps not really THE solution, i'd suggest getting air ducts/more air flow. Ducts can easily be added and removed, in essence leaving the car stock per your wishes. Another suggestion is to use 'shims' behind the brake pads. Call the guys at Girodisc, as these are small metal plates that help to reduce, to some extent, the heat from the pads from migrating to the brake calipers. IMHO that would be better than SRF, but if you are like me i'd use SRF, the backing plated, air ducts and whatever is NEEDED for consistent and reliable performance. As you know, brakes is one of the LAST THINGS you want to fail.

You never answered... you DO have steel braided brake lines from the calipers to the hard-lines, yes?

Overkill is a good thing provided in the end the brake temps at still in their optimum range. If there is one thing i did right with the tintop here, she is designed for safety and endurance.

Frankly, if it was my i'd hire race car professional brake technicians to diagnose and solve your situation ASAP before EVER tracking the car again. While you might feel that could be very expensive, it really is not THAT much. Kinda like the saying "$20 helmet, $20 head). As an FYI: brake pros analyze and provide accurate data as seen at http://www.enjoythetrack.com/ferrari/Br ... 0308QV.pdf

The world is a much better place with you in it, please check and resolve those brakes before your next track event.