Classes Revised for 2007

[Mick]

If the smell of race gas doesn't give it away, the overflowing coolant will.

[rajito]

If the smell of race gas doesn't give it away, the overflowing coolant will.

Awesome

Raj

[turtlevette]

And in the spirit of the above, who are you, Turtlevette? :whip:

turtlevette = a very slow vette

you instructed me at Summit about 4 years ago and recomended me for license. I rode in you Miata at that time. We spoke at Tremblant this year. I thought everyone would know who i was by my avatar. Up until Limerock the only guy running a car that looks like the COM logo.

I don't have a dog in this hunt as i have yet to run a time trial in the 6 years i've been a member of COM.

[zip4zat]

Please be mindful of your statements. They can be misconstrued as accusations.

[WillM]

Having taken the downhill at LimeRock a little faster than my comfort level, I also had race gas, but it wasn't in the tank.

[gread]

We're only accussing you of being slow Joe. Come on, you had your chance at LRP to be #1...

[cuda6666]

Can someone remind me of the date when the 2007 rules will be finalized?

Thanks

[WillM]

The November meeting ran long, and we adjourned with a few 2007 rule proposals undiscussed. Voting on all 2007 rules should be done by the close of the December meeting. From there, allow the rules master some time to update the rulebook and post online.

I'd estimate mid-January as a reasonable time-frame, possibly after the January meeting should there be some unexpected issues between now and then. That said, I'm not the one responsible for getting it done, but I expect the membership will be supplied with the rules as soon as reasonably possible.

[DanDarcy]

Ryan, I just wanted to point out that the stewards have no way of checking altered boost levels on forced induction cars and as pointed out by somebody else maybe they should run in one class like STGT, Which is now dominated by them.

This tread started by Nate posting the new car classes and Raj (along with many others ) being surprised that the WRX STi went down a class. They have dominated STGT and even won year end in SSU so why have they dropped to a lower class ? :dontknow:

I don't think many people cheat on purpose. People don't pay that much attention to the rules. They might notice they can change the ecu or chip and do it but don't realize that most of those changes also change boost levels which are not allowed. This past year I have seen a fellow running a car that started life as a 4 cylinder with a later model 6 cylinder motor. This was in an ST class , this is not allowed by the rules but he though it was ok because he was in the class for the later model 6 cylinder. I think we have to get members to understand the rules for their class so we don't have to decide everything by protest and steward.

[nateh]

Many cars are dropping down one class for 2007.

The observation has been for several years that with the general population of cars getting faster, the lower classes are getting small while the uppers are getting big. Not always the case, but a trend.

So as I say, many cars moved down one class. The board went back and forth on the STi - it's definitely fast for 2007 version of SSGT, but slower than the "supercars" that make up most of SSU for 2007.

[RyanC]

Ryan, I just wanted to point out that the stewards have no way of checking altered boost levels on forced induction cars and as pointed out by somebody else maybe they should run in one class like STGT, Which is now dominated by them.

Dan, thanks for pointing out the difficulty in policing boost levels; nobody was aware of this prior to you're pointing it out I don't think that policing coost levels is any harder than policing pistons, cams, gearing or headwork, so why not mention those as well?

This tread started by Nate posting the new car classes and Raj (along with many others ) being surprised that the WRX STi went down a class. They have dominated STGT and even won year end in SSU so why have they dropped to a lower class ? :dontknow:

You neglect to mention that the car is only part of the equation; don't forget the nut behind the wheel! But thanks for calling my winning of STGT two years in a row a domination; I like to think it was mere intimidation with a sprinkling of sabotage and bribery, but that's just me.

I don't think many people cheat on purpose. People don't pay that much attention to the rules.

I can't comment on how you or any others read the rules, but the folks I run with (you know, those annoying yet fast and sexy Subarus) are assiduous about following the rules. In fact, all members should do this; my belief is, most do.

They might notice they can change the ecu or chip and do it but don't realize that most of those changes also change boost levels which are not allowed.

Maybe you're just not up on the tech, but it's entirely possible to have a software change that does not increase the stock boost levels. There are exactly 3 SS or ST class winners who ran turbocharged cars this season; myself, James Kalinoski, and Charles Keane. James Kalinoski is a steward, so we can safely assume his car is legal. Charles doesn't have an ECU mod on his Evo, and I've already stated my car has a tune but still runs stock boost. So who are the cheaters? More importantly, why aren't they winning?

This past year I have seen a fellow running a car that started life as a 4 cylinder with a later model 6 cylinder motor. This was in an ST class , this is not allowed by the rules but he though it was ok because he was in the class for the later model 6 cylinder. I think we have to get members to understand the rules for their class so we don't have to decide everything by protest and steward.

If this person was in your class and you DIDN'T protest them, why complain about it now? It is the entrants responsibility to correctly classify their car, and if they make a mistake and it's brought to their attention, great. But if you notice, complain to them, and they don't correct the situation, you should file a protest.

[rajito]

Ryan, I just wanted to point out that the stewards have no way of checking altered boost levels on forced induction cars and as pointed out by somebody else maybe they should run in one class like STGT, Which is now dominated by them.

I don't think the Mini Cooper S people would like it too much if they were thrown in with the STi's and Evo's

Also, if you look at the SSU/STGT classified cars, the STi and Evo are the runt of the litter. They dominated STGT because none of the faster cars showed up and were driven quickly, or at least showed up often enough. Out of the box, the STi's are fast cars, but all three of us in STGT have a lot of track days under our belt, and we weren't shy about using all the track (and more, in my case).

The problem with enforcing rules is that we are COM, not Formula 1 or Nascar! We essentially run on an honor system, and those who consciously choose to cheat get, at best, .... OOOH... a trophy! I believe most of us don't do it though.

That being said, I think it is more important to consider what type of cars people are bringing, as opposed to all the cars that ever have been created. Gearing the classes according to participation levels would produce more happy people and fewer whiners. This is the main reason why I think STi's should stay in SSU.

There are only 9 non-STi cars in STGT the whole season, none of whom ran more than 2 events. There are only 11 non-STi/non-Evo cars in SSU all of last season, none of whom ran more than 2 events.

Raj

[Tsurara]

Maybe you're just not up on the tech, but it's entirely possible to have a software change that does not increase the stock boost levels. There are exactly 3 SS or ST class winners who ran turbocharged cars this season; myself, James Kalinoski, and Charles Keane. James Kalinoski is a steward, so we can safely assume his car is legal. Charles doesn't have an ECU mod on his Evo, and I've already stated my car has a tune but still runs stock boost. So who are the cheaters? More importantly, why aren't they winning?

Let's be serious, I could be running 900000 psi of boost and those damned Z06s would still own me

I think we do a very good job of policing other members though. I remember we gave fellow WRX guy "Ricer Ron" aka "eclip5e" a lot of crap when we found out he was running Carbon Fiber in ST1!

[eclip5e]

Maybe you're just not up on the tech, but it's entirely possible to have a software change that does not increase the stock boost levels. There are exactly 3 SS or ST class winners who ran turbocharged cars this season; myself, James Kalinoski, and Charles Keane. James Kalinoski is a steward, so we can safely assume his car is legal. Charles doesn't have an ECU mod on his Evo, and I've already stated my car has a tune but still runs stock boost. So who are the cheaters? More importantly, why aren't they winning?

Let's be serious, I could be running 900000 psi of boost and those damned Z06s would still own me

I think we do a very good job of policing other members though. I remember we gave fellow WRX guy "Ricer Ron" aka "eclip5e" a lot of crap when we found out he was running Carbon Fiber in ST1!

And so i joined the ranks of SPB rather than give up my JDM BLINGin'

[DanDarcy]

Ryan wrote

If this person was in your class and you DIDN'T protest them, why complain about it now? It is the entrants responsibility to correctly classify their car,

Ryan the car was in my class but I am not one to complain or protest. I'm not complaining now just pointing that some drivers are not good with the rules. By the way I spoke to the driver who offered to go to the stewards but I decline and just ask that he run the proper class in the future.

Congradulations on dominating STGT for the last 2 years. Right now I am high pre bidder on a slightly wrecked 2007 Z06 at the salvage auction in Texas . Aution finishes Dec. 7 --- maybe I'll be in STGT next year