Classes Revised for 2007

[eastcoastbumps]

I hate it when I don't know to whom I am talking.
Who is Zip4zat? Eastcoast bumps?
Who do COMmers feel the need to be anonymous?

Sorry Bruce, I figured everyone would see my name in my signature.

Pete McParland

[Seven]

In my opinion, the terminology "limited production cars modified by the manufacturer or aftermarket companies" is impossible to adequately define. Perhaps a court might call it "unenforceably vague?"

I am going to propose that this clause be struck. Focus of discussion should be on moving specific car models from class to class. We stewards are simple-minded and need things to be clearly defined in order for us to function.

I agree Nate. I'll let you determine which statement I agree with ... j/k

[DanDarcy]

When I did my first Com it was in a 2001 Z06 -- 3000 produced and the car was in street stock class SSU.
When I did my second Com it was in a completely stock 1997 Mustang Cobra --- 10,000 produced but it was considered limited production and had to be in street touring class ST1

I agree with Nateh , How do you define "limited production"

[eastcoastbumps]

I agree with Nateh , How do you define "limited production"

With a protest?

[WillM]

My track car - a 1993 Mazda Miata LE was a limited production. Only 1500 made! What made it special? Black paint, red leather interior, stainless steel interior accents, a special audio system featuring a CD player , and 14" BBS wheels.

A agree with Nate. Our rules should be as clear and concise as possible without sacrifice to simplicity. Our stewards should be focused on enforcing rules, not trying to interpret them.

[DanDarcy]

Ryab C wrote "My car is the sole STGT STi with a tune, still at stock boost" The rule for ST classes do not allow for boost modification. IT is impossible for the stewards to check boost at an event, maybe we should consider putting all forced induction cars in a seperate class and let them have at it.

And Bruce I always sign my name even when I suggest such silly thing like the above comment.

[mossaidis]

I'm not on the board, but I was at the board meeting in Nov '05 when the boost/classing issue was discussed.

Correct, there is no way for Stewards to check stock vs unstock boost levels. Though not having placed a statement in the rules stating standard boost levels would have caused chaos in the "bolt-on" ST class.

To answer your question though, it was generally agreed that COM does not want to increase the number of classes, unless there was a compelling reason. And there isn't/wasn't considering some classes still have a handful of competitors.

As far as cheaters are concerned, it was also generally agreed that they're just "silly" if they decided to cheat (increase boost in ST) and compete.

Some more discussion on ST ECU/boost level/pulley changes...

viewtopic.php?t=116

As I was reading the old thread, I remembered the idea of moving "extra" boosted cars into STGT, but safety would be an issue. Wow, has this topic come full circle or what...

If so, the only real issue here is if putting boosted SS/ST cars in SSGT is safe. Could a boosted Sub' with no brake or suspension mods go faster than what "might" be safe? (I have heard of subs not having adeqaute stock brakes for instance, even when have they have track pads...) That always depends a lot on the driver of course, but where do we draw the line? Honestly, I have no idea. Again, a question for an experienced and knowledgable BODs.

As far not being able to detect if cars are boosted brings an interesting point. Just because a stewart can't detect a mod doesn't mean that we should make it legal. I certainly could put "mild" cams in the Honda and no one needs to know, but I won't cause it would be cheating. I'm sure folks are stretching the rules a little. There is a definitely a push and pull between safety and allowing more mods in street cars to have fun on the track. Hopefully we can clarify the rules, have fun and stay safe.

Just a thought: Perhaps boosted SS/ST cars should have a rollcage, or at least a roll bar...

[brucesallen]

Hey Bruce, maybe all that speed over the years warped your eyes; check the signatures! Eastcoastbumps is Pete, zip4zat is #749, aka Joe Lu. And I am Johnny Cash

D'oh- I was wrong about Pete.
Joe, thanks for adding your name.
Johnny, you should change your name.

[nateh]

I'm with Bruce on the basic idea that it would be nice to know who people are. I always thought I was the only clueless one. But with Bruce joining my wagon, I can hold my head up and say to my fellow Forumites, "Enter and sign in, please!"*

- Nate

*What's My Line? 1950-1975

[offcamber09]

Hey Bruce, maybe all that speed over the years warped your eyes; check the signatures! Eastcoastbumps is Pete, zip4zat is #749, aka Joe Lu. And I am Johnny Cash

There's NO way Johnny Cash would drive a Subaru... please!

[RyanC]

Ryab C wrote "My car is the sole STGT STi with a tune, still at stock boost" The rule for ST classes do not allow for boost modification. IT is impossible for the stewards to check boost at an event, maybe we should consider putting all forced induction cars in a seperate class and let them have at it.

Dan, not sure if you misread what I posted or you just quoted me to make a point that I am missing; my car has an Ecutek tune, which keeps my car at stock boost levels (as is required in ST), but helps me in other ways, like a higher rev limit, more timing, adjusting the cams, etc. Nothing outside the class rules there, or are you trying to illustrate something else?

[nateh]

My first interpretation of Dan's comment was that he was quoting Ryan as accusing others of illegally raising their STi's boost levels. 8-[
I trust that I was mis-reading Dan's comment? Perhaps Dan could clarify as well. [-o<

Cheers!

- Nate

[turtlevette]

illegally raising their STi's boost levels.

quite serious. right up there with pulling that "do not remove under penalty of law" tag off your matress.

as a matter of fact i do smell some serious racing gas as those things blast past me.

[nateh]

And in the spirit of the above, who are you, Turtlevette? :whip:

[RyanC]

illegally raising their STi's boost levels.

quite serious. right up there with pulling that "do not remove under penalty of law" tag off your matress.

as a matter of fact i do smell some serious racing gas as those things blast past me.

So now the use of race gas is also evidence of increased boost?

In case my post was misinterpreted, I had/have no intention of insinuating any of the other STI guys in STGT were/are running more boost. I pointed out that I was the only one with a tune, and that my tune doesn't run more boost than the car did stock.