Suggestion for changing time trial format

[imgon]

In as much I would like more track time, the three hot laps is a special kind of competition. Like others have said you have to be ready/on for your three laps. I have run in another format where you are on the clock all day long. The traffic is always there but it is about the same for everyone and most people play nicely , occasionally you pull out a really good lap and that is your winning lap. While I have picked up more 1st and 2nd place trophies the gratification is not the same, it seems more like luck. Although I don't do well in my class I very much like the three lap format we run. Maybe the answer is a few more cars on track per TT session. Can the rfid track more cars better than humans can, was that the original reason for the low car count when timing was done with stopwatches? With the three lap format could we put 10 cars out at a time with shorter release intervls without producing catches frequently? I feel like there are almost as many people who show up just for the TT as leave because of less track time on TT day.

[hroundy]

I took the NHMS3 TT results and grouped everyone by time. The best I could figure out was that it would take 6 groups with 5 second intervals. Depending on differential between the first and last car's lap time in the group it would take 6 to 10 laps for the first car to catch the last car. All groups have 14 cars except the fastest group. Because of Mike's blazingly fast time only 9 cars can be in that group and provide him 6 clean laps. Everyone would get 13-15 laps in a 20 minute session. Total time would be 2 hours, one hour less than it took at NHMS3. If the sessions were limited to 10 laps, it would take about an hour and a half. If the new format attracted more entrants, it would take longer.

Here is a link to my spreadsheet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cw513k0v8slpf ... .xlsx?dl=0

[Mario Fallas]

There's no denying that the TT count of 5-4-3-2-1 GO! Is a hell of a rush (to me at least) followed by 3 clean laps, just you, the car and the track, no excuses, now that's pure adrenaline !
On the other hand it would be nice having more track time instead of sitting around for hours regardless of what run group you're in.
I guess what I'm saying is that the product is basically good, but it can stand some tweaking , how? Don't ask me, I'm just saying

[bhoss]

I am not sure that grouping cars of the same speed together is the way to go. Its very difficult to pass someone who is 2/10th slower than you - much easier to pass someone that is a second or two slower. For instance my Miata and a good 5L Mustang may have the same lap time but we generate it in different parts of the track. If I followed him or he followed me we would both be frustrated and have slower lap times - it would not be logical to expect me to point him by on the straight and then have him point me by on the twisty bits.

People are used to or present run groups that have a wider range of lap times - they are able to work their way through it. If you cannot get at least 3 clean laps in 20 minutes then you are doing something wrong.

[Stynger]

That said, my concerns are more culture based and a possible concern for safety issues regarding conditions. I'll explain. First the culture.. I think the atmosphere in the paddock is great at a COM event. Everyone helps everyone (generally) and the group has worked very hard to make folks feel welcome and included. A lot of this culture starts on the track, with respect for the passing rules and courteous behavior. Due to our competitive nature, I can see on track brinksmanship/gamesmanship, whatever your word for it is, becoming part of an individual's TT strategy. Two cars on a flier where a pass needs to be executed.....heated moments....folks laying up prior to a flier...anything that may make another individual lift or otherwise not give 100% on their lap(s). Add this up and some individuals may not get a fair shake out there, even for full sessions. I'm taking this to the extreme, but if it becomes "kill or be killed" out there, it will most certainly affect the culture in the paddock as well. That troubles me.

The safety concern is with regard to rain events. Folks pushing for lap times in the rain is not the same as driving in practice in the rain. Given the difference in relative skill levels between solo'd students, newly licensed drivers, and veterans, combined with an assortment of tires from full rains to 300 tw street tires, can add up to a dumpster fire of a TT session. The thing for veteran players to remember is that day one is a school, and that these drivers could be soloing for the first time. I can't tell you how many "Holy shit I didn't expect........" moments I have heard when newly solo'd folks go out with their classmates on day two. The TT is intimidating enough for them, and how we sell it to them is that they have the track to themselves.....the only time all weekend they will have the track to themselves really. I have had many of my students sign up for day two based on that pitch.

I agree with Troy, things could go bad fast.
It's easy to say SCCA deals with it, they can pass anywhere, anytime.
Our TT now is no excuses, just you and the track. Also IMO much safer.

[paultg]

There are many logistic to consider with a change like this. Bill made a very good point about similar lap times for different cars and where time is made.
Also, having the practice sessions timed as the TT will pretty much void any track insurance policy someone may want. That could really impact registration in a negative way.

[brucesallen]

There are many logistic to consider with a change like this. Bill made a very good point about similar lap times for different cars and where time is made.
Also, having the practice sessions timed as the TT will pretty much void any track insurance policy someone may want. That could really impact registration in a negative way.

Isn't all of the second day considered a competition event at present because of the TT?

[SEISAN]

Although I am open to changes I prefer the format we Are using now. Three laps , you and the track is good. With a 20 second gap and a rabbit in front it gives you a bit more To chase the car in front of you.

If you are with a group and you are trying to get a clean lap on track and with everything else going on how can you just focus on a nice clean lap.

You are pre prepared with the 3 lap format.

As far as open track, for the past five years and missing only one event During that time I have not done open track and would gladly pass on it to keep the 3 lap format.

Bob

[McMahonRacing]

Why wouldn't COM spend a year adjusting the run groups ( # 1 - 4 ) by times run thru out the last season or so, run practices like that & see how those run groups pan out before reinventing TT ( be a good way to see if you can get decent laps or not ) .... one of the side benefits might just be saving a life ( the closure rates / differentials on some cars w/in a run group could cause issues esp. if the car you may be approaching is a car the should be much faster than it is in reality or takes and odd line for some unknown reason, this is one of several reasons I moved to NASA .... the last couple yrs. w/ COM I had several instances where car to car contact was just ever so slightly avoided ( very dangerous ), the only way I was able to resolve this ( yes, I talked to folks about moving a couple cars to a safer group where they could learn safely w/o driving a full session starring in their mirrors but, it just never happened ) was to get out first run a few laps and then come in, very rarely did I take a full session.

We won't get in the NASA experience, let's just say it is assume in my book.

[paultg]

Isn't all of the second day considered a competition event at present because of the TT?

I have not personally purchased this type of insurance coverage, but it's my understanding that the folks who buy actual "track" insurance are covered all weekend except for the (3) "TT" laps. I've heard about what you describe, but thought that was when folks try to use their standard auto insurance policy for coverage. I think those days of getting lucky on legal terminology with a standard auto policy are long gone.

Paul G.

[brucesallen]

Many regular car insurance policies outside of Mass. where it is illegal cover non-competition track use. Her is my Metlife exclusion wording:
"any motor vehicle while it is located inside a facility designed for racing, for the purpose of competing
in, practicing for, or preparing for, any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest"
This clearly does not exclude HDPEs like BMW or SCDA and, I believe COM school days from coverage.

[jlaugh]

Very interesting discussion - thanks for all the point of views. I really thought TroyV made some excellent points. As long as COM is financially sound via event attendance and the majority of participants prefer the classic time trial then obviously we should stick with this format.

[brucesallen]

Very interesting discussion - thanks for all the point of views. I really thought TroyV made some excellent points. As long as COM is financially sound via event attendance and the majority of participants prefer the classic time trial then obviously we should stick with this format.

But we don't know the majority want status quo. It is your job to propose a rule change and then let the formal debate begin at the Board meeting this week!