SS wheel widths

[uwaeve]

Hi there. I'm new here, and have a question about wheels. I'm looking into buying a second set. Stock wheels are 8" wide fronts and 8.5" wide rears. I currently run 245s all around.

Reading the SS rules, it says that wheel widths must be identical to stock. Two questions:

1. Can this be interpreted as no WIDER than stock? For instance, would I be able to run 8" wheels all around?
2. Why is wheel width constrained? I would think tire width would be constrained. The statement that any tire size that will fit (per manufacturer's approval) on the stock wheel width should be sufficient. For instance, a 245 will fit on an 8" wheel as well as a 9.5" wheel. If I wanted 9.5" wheels (to run 275s for HPDE for instance) and ran 245s on them, I'm not really gaining anything in the tire department (except wheel weight) for the time trials.

Part of the reason I ask is that there aren't too many wheel choices out there for me, and I'd like to get the same size all around.

Thanks in advance!

[therooster]

I believe that this would be handled similar to cases such as the C5 Corvette as they had different diamiter front and rear tires and that you would be able to run the wider rim. You would probably be covered under this section.

"b. The rim width used is among the rim widths recommend by the tire manufacturer for that particular tire size."

However I suggest that you submit a rule change to make it official otherwise I believe that they are officially not legal.

As far as your statement on tire width is concerned I do not belive that you are correct. " For instance, a 245 will fit on an 8" wheel as well as a 9.5" wheel. If I wanted 9.5" wheels (to run 275s for HPDE for instance) and ran 245s on them, I'm not really gaining anything in the tire department (except wheel weight) for the time trials. " Not true. The efferctive area of the tire can also change as the rim width changes. This is what the Club is trying to limit. The size of the rim does effect how wide the tread of a tire is. That is why there is a suggested range. Go outside this range and you will effect how the tire performes.

Further we limit modifications to make it easier to police. If we allowed unlimited rim changes in SS we put the responsibility on the person protesting to prove an advantage. If we limit/do not allow any change it is much easier to monitor this class. I seem to remember a limit on changes in wheel sizes similar to the SCCA " 8. Wheels: Wheels shall be standard equipment for the make,model, and year of automobile, or as listed in the SSS and approved by ARB and EPA certification for that automobile. All four (4) wheels shall be the same style and material." but can not find it in the recent COM rule books. Maybe it related to increasing the tire size no more the 10 mm in width. I seem to remember deviating from this in the late 1990's, somethime after our last Bridgehampton event. I seem to remember the argument centering on the potential advantage of the increased tire widths. It is easier to monitor the tire sizes then the rim sizes.

Chris A.

[uwaeve]

Thanks for the reply.

I agree with you that the shape of the tire will change with a different rim width. It is usually quoted by tire manufacturers as section width change, however. For instance, on the data sheet for my tires I find that the section width increases 5mm for every 0.5" increase in rim width. While this may put more tread on the ground, I believe it would be even less than 5mm. So for a 12.5mm increase in rim width, you get an increase of 5mm in section width, and I'm betting maybe half that in tread. I have no experience with this, basically just conjecturing here.

Of course, the answer could be "it's the rules, dummy," and that would be as good as any. Just trying to explain where I'm coming from.

I'll have to review the rulebook for the C5-style spec. Thanks.

uwaeve

[HerbD]

Hi there. I'm new here, and have a question about wheels. I'm looking into buying a second set. Stock wheels are 8" wide fronts and 8.5" wide rears. I currently run 245s all around.

Reading the SS rules, it says that wheel widths must be identical to stock. Two questions:

1. Can this be interpreted as no WIDER than stock? For instance, would I be able to run 8" wheels all around?

The short answer is no. You must use the size wheels available
for the car. The long answer begins with the term "available'.
If your car came from the factory available with different wheel sizes,
you could use any set that came together on your model.

2. Why is wheel width constrained?

This is the easiest thing to check. Tire sizes are fuzzy anyway.
One company's 205 can often be as wide as another company's
225. So, it's whatever fits the wheel.

[HerbD]

I believe that this would be handled similar to cases such as the C5 Corvette as they had different diamiter front and rear tires and that you would be able to run the wider rim. You would probably be covered under this section.

Not exactly. I think you're thinking of two different rules.

IX.Wheels and Tires.1. Allows for different rim *diameters* if your stock
rims are smaller than 13 inches (allowing 13 inches) or larger than 17
inches (allowing 17 inches). However, the replacement rims must still
be the stock *width*.

This rule was created when the C5 came out to allow the use of then
much less expensive 17 inch rims (and tires) on cars with 18 inch and
larger rims (Corvette, Viper, etc). Now mostly moot as there are
18 inch wheels and R-compound tires available.

The other (not exactly a rule) item you're probably thinking about is
when a car is available with different sets of wheels. The C4 Corvette
was usually available with 17x8.5 in front and 17x9.5 in back, but if
you ordered the Z07 suspension, you got 17x9.5 all around, so we
allowed C4s to run 17x9.5 all around, as it was an available factory
option.

That doesn't mean you can put GTI rims on a Golf GL, as they were
not available on that model.

[uwaeve]

OK, I think I understand. My car, in the trim level I bought (which carries the widest wheels available in any trim level from the factory) comes with 8.0"F/8.5"R, so apparently this is what I'm sticking with.
The only question I didn't get answered was whether I could use a narrower than stock wheel. For instance, could I go with 8.0" all around? This was an available set of sizes for my car. With a different trim level, the car would have been delivered with 8.0" wheels all around.

Thanks for everyone's replies. This whole wheel shopping thing is driving me nuts.[/i]

[therooster]

Herb you're right I was thinking of the C4 situation as opposed to the C5.

Chris A.

[HerbD]

The only question I didn't get answered was whether I could use a narrower than stock wheel. For instance, could I go with 8.0" all around? This was an available set of sizes for my car. With a different trim level, the car would have been delivered with 8.0" wheels all around.

No, I think I did answer it, you just didn't like the answer.

But seriously, if your model of car (with the same engine and
transmission) was available with 8 inch wheels all around as a
factory option, then you can run that set of wheels.

Otherwise, the answer would be no, you can't arbitrarily run narrower
rims, the rule says you have to run the as-delivered width wheels.

[BrakeL8r]

Having said that, he can run whatever he wants (e.g., 8.0" all the way around), and even collect a trophy, as long as no one protests him. And who's gonna protest someone for stepping down in wheel width? Track records are a different story however -- you'd need to get tech'ed by a steward, who might know the difference. I'm not telling you what to do, but am saying that if it were my car, I'd take advantage of the economy of running the same wheel/tire combination at all four corners.

Michael Carr
ST4 Miata #176

[HerbD]

Having said that, he can run whatever he wants (e.g., 8.0" all the way around), and even collect a trophy, as long as no one protests him. And who's gonna protest someone for stepping down in wheel width? Track records are a different story however -- you'd need to get tech'ed by a steward, who might know the difference. I'm not telling you what to do, but am saying that if it were my car, I'd take advantage of the economy of running the same wheel/tire combination at all four corners.

Michael Carr
ST4 Miata #176

Putting on my Rules Chairman hat for just a moment, I certainly
hope that this isn't the way that most people think about the rules.
The whole point of having a friggen rule book is so that everyone
knows what to expect of their competitors.

Now, if someone wants to suggest a rule change, I think that
allowing a step down in wheel width to allow someone to run
all the same size tires and do rotation to maximize tire life
is a perfectly reasonable thing to put out for consideration.

[jlwhorf]

It seems unfair that someone in SS could win their class in the rain running "winter" wheels and street tires, and then be disqualified.

Not thinking about making a rules change, but just a thought.

Jonathan
900 Monte Carlo PA

[HerbD]

It seems unfair that someone in SS could win their class in the rain running "winter" wheels and street tires, and then be disqualified.

There are actually a remarkable number of stupid little things
that you could get a competitor disqualified for if you had a
mean streak. Luckily, our membership doesn't generally do
that.

On the other hand, I think that there are a a few cars
winning trophies that probably should be protested,
but no one does.

[kfoote]

It seems unfair that someone in SS could win their class in the rain running "winter" wheels and street tires, and then be disqualified.

Not thinking about making a rules change, but just a thought.

Jonathan
900 Monte Carlo PA

There was actually a big controversy over a similar situation in World Challenge a couple of years ago that resulted in a change in the wording of the rules. There was a team that ended up winning a World Challenge GT race because they used what were their narrower front tires on the rear, in the rain, and ended up dominating the race. The rule has now been changed to close the loophole.

The short version is there are situations where it can be a competitive advantage to runnig a narrower tire and/or wheel.

[uwaeve]

I can understand now. Didn't mean to open up the whole can of worms. I guess the point is if I'm going to go for the track record, trophy, and associated sponsorships, pro rides, women, and fame, I'll need to make sure everything is squeaky clean. Since at this point I'm just trying to keep the thing pointed in the right direction out there, I may be able to relax and just learn for a while...

Thanks for everyone's input.

[rajito]

I can understand now. Didn't mean to open up the whole can of worms. I guess the point is if I'm going to go for the track record, trophy, and associated sponsorships, pro rides, women, and fame, I'll need to make sure everything is squeaky clean. Since at this point I'm just trying to keep the thing pointed in the right direction out there, I may be able to relax and just learn for a while...

Thanks for everyone's input.

If you can't find women, go for a Miata driver instead. Wow!

Hey, that was Scott Rosnick speaking through me!
Raj