Watkins Glen

[savage217]

Hey guys, just curious how many runs groups/sessions there will be at WGI this year based on the current attendance. Would love it if the club would limit the attendance a bit so we can maximize the track time. In years past myself and others in my group got royally screwed by black flags and things of that nature (I know it's part of the sport and nothing you can really do) but I was just curious if there were any tentative plans on the schedule so far?

Thanks,
Nick

[dradernh]

As one of the guys who caused a black flag in your run group last year, Nick, I sincerely apologize. I've been on the other end often enough to know what it's like to have an already-short session cut even shorter due to another driver's problem. And the Glen doesn't make it easier by shutting the track when a car is stopped, no matter how far away from the driving line it might be (I parked it all the way out at the T1 wall, hoping that they'd wait to come get me - didn't help). Longer sessions would be terrific if they could be made to happen.

Further suggestions:

eliminate the track-out cones at Ts 1, 10 & 11, and
allow four-offs at Ts 1 & 10;

I can't recall if either of these are already the case.

The open-lapping groups run this way, and it hasn't seemed to result in any issues now that the T1 & T10 runoff areas are fully paved. Different groups put the T11 track-out cone in different places; some have it so far back that drivers can't use all the curbing at track-out.

[Foosh442]

Further suggestions:

eliminate the track-out cones at Ts 1, 10 & 11, and
allow four-offs at Ts 1 & 10;

I can't recall if either of these are already the case.

The open-lapping groups run this way, and it hasn't seemed to result in any issues now that the T1 & T10 runoff areas are fully paved. Different groups put the T11 track-out cone in different places; some have it so far back that drivers can't use all the curbing at track-out.

+1 great suggestions

[savage217]

As one of the guys who caused a black flag in your run group last year, Nick, I sincerely apologize. I've been on the other end often enough to know what it's like to have an already-short session cut even shorter due to another driver's problem. And the Glen doesn't make it easier by shutting the track when a car is stopped, no matter how far away from the driving line it might be (I parked it all the way out at the T1 wall, hoping that they'd wait to come get me - didn't help). Longer sessions would be terrific if they could be made to happen.

Further suggestions:

eliminate the track-out cones at Ts 1, 10 & 11, and
allow four-offs at Ts 1 & 10;

I can't recall if either of these are already the case.

The open-lapping groups run this way, and it hasn't seemed to result in any issues now that the T1 & T10 runoff areas are fully paved. Different groups put the T11 track-out cone in different places; some have it so far back that drivers can't use all the curbing at track-out.

Doug, I am not blaming you or anyone that caused the black flags, it's part of the sport. I was merely trying to see if there were ways to combat those situations. Mechanical failures and crashes are almost always present at any given event but it's the way the track/club handles them that helps us all squeeze out as much track time as possible.

AT NHMS we have safety vehicles on the track while run sessions are going on and we are alerted this by the white flag indication. This is great and I am glad that COM allows this to happen as it has worked flawlessly to this point. Doug, it sounds like you are saying that WGI track staff will not allow COM to run this type of format, is that correct? If that's the case there isn't much the club can do to get around those issues. However, maybe this is something that can be brought to the WGI staff's attention ahead of time to see if there is any exceptions or other ways of handling offs/mechanical failures etc so we don't lose out on precious track time.

I also would love to be able to go 4 over the rumbles at turn 1 and turn 10 as you suggest above. Is there any reason why this is not allowed at least on day 2 of the event?

[dradernh]

Doug, it sounds like you are saying that WGI track staff will not allow COM to run this type of format, is that correct? If that's the case there isn't much the club can do to get around those issues. However, maybe this is something that can be brought to the WGI staff's attention ahead of time to see if there is any exceptions or other ways of handling offs/mechanical failures etc so we don't lose out on precious track time.

That's my understanding. I can't recall at which event I last heard it explained at the driver's meeting, but I believe I've heard at more than one event that this is track policy, and I've certainly observed that WGI has closed the track while they tow a car that is four-off and unable to move. Come to think of it, though, I saw a certain Corvette off on the grass on the right in the sole at a COM event a couple of years ago, and I'm not sure they closed the track for that (I think I remember seeing it sitting there lap after lap), so maybe it's something COM has control over. When I've run with DE groups the track is closed under those circumstances; same with NASA.

The club officer who interfaces with WGI will certainly know if there's flexibility in this area. It would be great if there was, and the club chose to take advantage of it.

[savage217]

Doug, it sounds like you are saying that WGI track staff will not allow COM to run this type of format, is that correct? If that's the case there isn't much the club can do to get around those issues. However, maybe this is something that can be brought to the WGI staff's attention ahead of time to see if there is any exceptions or other ways of handling offs/mechanical failures etc so we don't lose out on precious track time.

That's my understanding. I can't recall at which event I last heard it explained at the driver's meeting, but I believe I've heard at more than one event that this is track policy, and I've certainly observed that WGI has closed the track while they tow a car that is four-off and unable to move. Come to think of it, though, I saw a certain Corvette off on the grass on the right in the sole at a COM event a couple of years ago, and I'm not sure they closed the track for that (I think I remember seeing it sitting there lap after lap), so maybe it's something COM has control over. When I've run with DE groups the track is closed under those circumstances; same with NASA.

The club officer who interfaces with WGI will certainly know if there's flexibility in this area. It would be great if there was, and the club chose to take advantage of it.

Yep that was Mario, back in 2011 I believe. I remember that vividly.

[dradernh]

Yep that was Mario, back in 2011 I believe. I remember that vividly.

Yeah, didn't want to name names, what with all the time I've spent parked at the side of the road.

[CP]

Different groups put the T11 track-out cone in different places; some have it so far back that drivers can't use all the curbing at track-out.

So move the cone with your car on the out-lap!

[dradernh]

Different groups put the T11 track-out cone in different places; some have it so far back that drivers can't use all the curbing at track-out.

So move the cone with your car on the out-lap!

Good idea, and exactly what I used to do at turns like that one and T12 at Tremblant. The 10" splitter I'm running now doesn't like it, though. If I were an autocrosser, I might try using the rear of the car; but, then, cones sometimes turn out to weigh a fair amount, and the body gets bent more than you'd like.

[CP]

Kind of along the same lines, something I learned from practice days at NHMS: Do NOT try to dodge misplaced cones in key corners because they're much softer to run over than the wall. A buddy tried dodging one coming onto the front straight and lost. I got away with it here coming up through T7...twice:

phpBB [video]

[6PAK72]

Just got back from 2 days with Audi.

FWIW,

The track rep was very clear that the TRACK rules about 2-off vs. 4-off CAN be modified by club request, and that our club had requested that we drive within WGI suggested parameters ie: 2 OVER the berm at 1 is a black flag situation, 2 OVER the berm at 11 is a black flag situation, any car producing dirt clouds is a black flag situation.

It seems that individual flaggers are more or less sensitive to driving behavior. For instance, we had full through-the-apex passing in the toe, and full side-by-side at #8, and no flags were thrown whereas any attempt at a late pass at 1 or into the bus stop was immediately flagged.

[dradernh]

Just got back from 2 days with Audi.

FWIW,

The track rep was very clear that the TRACK rules about 2-off vs. 4-off CAN be modified by club request, and that our club had requested that we drive within WGI suggested parameters ie: 2 OVER the berm at 1 is a black flag situation, 2 OVER the berm at 11 is a black flag situation, any car producing dirt clouds is a black flag situation.

It seems that individual flaggers are more or less sensitive to driving behavior. For instance, we had full through-the-apex passing in the toe, and full side-by-side at #8, and no flags were thrown whereas any attempt at a late pass at 1 or into the bus stop was immediately flagged.

Thanks for the info, Jeff.

Does anyone know who in the club can choose to allow us two-offs or four-offs in specified corners without black flags being thrown?

[chaos4NH]

I would leave that decision to Chief Instructor. If he gives the OK I will set it up with the track.

[dradernh]

I would leave that decision to Chief Instructor. If he gives the OK I will set it up with the track.

I'll give him a shout.