Thanks, oops and question

[swinecanfly]

Thanks for a great time at NHIS2. I have run with several clubs this year, but the atmosphere at COM can not be topped. Whether its help with problems, tips, or just hanging out - its a great bunch of people.

Yesterday when I had some issues (pics and story below) the COM members were there to help - Greg with the offer of the trailer, Ann and Keith with zip ties and encouragement, Fred with tips on where to get body panels, Mark L for just being cool, and Peter with an offer to use the blue Porsche - but that may have been a joke. Sorry if I forgot anyone - it turned into a busy day fast.

Also, big thanks to Pops and Scott for helping pack up, taking pics, and "thats nothing - drive it home".

Yesterday session 3 of 4 at the Boston BMW school. Entering turn 3. Get on brakes at second cone like I had all week. Brakes lock up - lift off brakes - back on - lock up again. Looking back I should have modulated the pedal and tried to steer up the hill - I didn't this time - next time I will. In the pics you'll see my skid marks from the second lock up - they are the ones straight through 3 and into the tires. The rest of the pics speak for themselves. No major damage to me or the car.

This may turn into an ABS vs non ABS thread, but here goes: In cars equipped with ABS how do you effectively brake without getting into ABS? Is it a thing you learn over time? Should I brake until I feel it kick in and then lift slightly? or should I just hammer the pedal and let the ABS do its work?

Craig
#28 ST2

[rajito]

In cars equipped with ABS how do you effectively brake without getting into ABS? Is it a thing you learn over time? Should I brake until I feel it kick in and then lift slightly? or should I just hammer the pedal and let the ABS do its work?

Not sure how the ABS in your car is set up, but in the STi, it's fairly unintrusive. Even when it kicks in in the dry, it's not pulsing like Dan Malek's veins when someone misses the checkered flag.

I usually let the ABS do its thing if it comes on, and back off a wee bit if I can feel it. I then brake a bit earlier the next time around. I can feel it more in the rain.

99% of the time, I just sit back and the car drives itself.
Raj

[boltonite]

ABS will engage prematurely when "confused" by ripples - it makes the system think you have exceeded braking capacity. Turn 3 is the worst - you have to enter the brake zone ~ 6-8 ft from the edge to avoid those ripples. I've brushed the tire wall at least once due to ABS "helping" me to brake. If your ABS relay is not working you will lock up instead - the M3 exhibits extreme rear brake bias if the ABS relay is not functioning . . .
FF

[swinecanfly]

Fred - thanks for the tip. I appreciate it.

The relay is working (changed last fall along with the ABS brain). So I guess it was the ripples that caused the ABS to go haywire.

Greg Read told me after my incident that he had moved his line more inside in three because of lock up in his car too.

I assume the line you are recommending is closer to what I would call the rain line? Are you saying straddle the tires around where the passenger side tires usually go or all the way to the right of the typical passenger side tire?

I never watched your line through 3, but I did watch every time you went through 6. Now I know where the apex really is.

Thanks,

Craig

[MRLM3]

Craig,
Glad to see it wasn't too bad. Pops didn't seem too upset given that he's had some braking isuues in the past When my car was basically stock, I had some occasional issues with the ABS getting fooled and the left front locking up going into 9. Same issue as turn 3, the bumps. Clearly given the flat spotting on the tire, the ABS for whatever reason didn't do it's job.

[boltonite]

FWIW, in my M3 i enter the brake zone of #3 ~ 6-8' from the left edge, SQUEEZE the brakes and threshold brake, heading toward the extreme left edge, trail off the brakes and straighten the car just before i turn in. In the miata i don't shift my entry but i still SQUEEZE onto the brakes to avoid lockup (esp for a bumpy area). I always avoid engaging the abs - it will lengthen braking distance and abs pulsing wears out pads much faster (tip for suburu guys?).
-FF

[MRLM3]

I agree with Fred. Although I don't have to alter my line, squeezing and lots of trail braking works on the E36. The only times I get into the ABS is when I have gone a little too deep trying to pass somebody.

[xstar]

Should I brake until I feel it kick in and then lift slightly?

That's what I do.
I squeeze on the brake like Fred and Mark described. If I feel any lockup, I back off the pedal slightly and try to sense the tires grip again.

I would suggest sampling the "squeezing" effect Fred and Mark describes by asking them to push against your palm to replicate the feeling.

edit: My Miata does not have ABS.

[swinecanfly]

Its not white like I hoped but picking this up this weekend:

[TroyV]

A white one would have been pretty cool. Mick would be jealous.

[Georgethefierce]

on a positive note....it's definately a track car now!

albeit and ugly orange one....


welcome to the bent but not broken club

[Mark Swinehart]

"A chip off the old block"

Now I'm soo proud of my son - his Mom is "pleased" too!!!!

[rajito]

Mr. Swinehart The Elder,

Quit posting on COM forums and send me email

Raj

[Georgethefierce]

Mr. Swinehart The Elder,

Quit posting on COM forums and send me email

Raj

he's busy lurking on the Suby board

[Mark Swinehart]

Raj -

Check your e-mail.