NER PDE at NHIS

swinecanfly · Post by **swinecanfly** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:45 am

Overall the event ran pretty well. Almost all of the COM guys were in the fast run group. A run group of only 9 cars.

There was lots of room on the track and the limited passing zones actually didn't hurt the event as much as I thought it would.

Before I go back to run with SCCA again they would have to make one change though. During the "participants" meeting they told us that the flag stations would only have black flags - no other flags - no yellows! If they had offered refunds at the meeting I probably would have taken them up on it because I didn't feel that this was safe.

The "rules" were took a bit of getting used to. On my second session I went wide in 10 onto the extended pavement and put a wheel or two off. I finished the session and then pitted in. I was held in pit lane and told that I was lucky because I was going to be black flagged, but because the session was over they didn't have time - even though I passed station 5 before the end of the session. Also, I never heard that if we put a wheel (or 2) off we had to come in. The other thing that kinda bugged me about this was that there was no flagger in 10 so the flagger in 11 made the judgement that I had put 2 wheels off. No big deal but kinda weird.

In my third session I went wide out of 3 and jumped the curb. I pitted in immediately and was told that there was no need - I should have waited for the balck flag. At the end of the session I did get to visit the chief instructor - more on that below.

The first of 4 sessions there was passing only on the front straight from the exit of 12 to the braking zone into 1.

In the third session they opened up the passing zone up the hill in 4 to 6, but I got a reprimand for passing on the right. I was pointed by on the right and passed without even thinking I was doing anything wrong. At the end of the session I had a personal meeting with the chief instructor to enforce the only passing on the left rule.

Overall we had plenty of open track time. I would go back, but only if the flagging stations had all of the required flags. If our run group was larger the lack of passing zones would have been an issue. And the SCCA needs to better lay out the rules (passing L or R, wheels off, etc...).

Again great time, but needs some improvements.

Tsurara · Post by **Tsurara** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:41 am

I also had a pretty good time. I would say the day was more competitive than a BMWCCA day (probably because of the crowd that was there) but the flagging rule and passing rule also bugged the hell out of me. A particular car spun in turn three and since there was no flag, I went full out uphill and almost hit him. I got pretty pissed off after that. I did most of my passing on the straight so the passing to the left wasn't much of an issue for me, but had I done some passing on the uphill, I think that would have bugged me quite a bit. The worst part was getting black flagged for "going too fast"

The "too fast" black flag happened to me, Raj, and Suresh a few times. I don't know why they gave it to me, but Raj and Suresh weren't even driving to their full potential. Their reasoning behind the flag was that this was a school, but I don't know how we are supposed to learn if we are not pushing our limits.

Overall it was pretty good, they just need a few changes, but since it was their first event I guess I can't be too hard on them.

Mark Swinehart · Post by **Mark Swinehart** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:55 am

"A particular car spun in turn three. . ."

It wasn't a red Miata by any chance?

Tsurara · Post by **Tsurara** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:58 am

Mark Swinehart wrote:"A particular car spun in turn three. . ."

It wasn't a red Miata by any chance?

Could be

Georgethefierce · Post by **Georgethefierce** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:58 am

Mark Swinehart wrote:"A particular car spun in turn three. . ."

It wasn't a red Miata by any chance?

I can neither comfirm nor deny that statement

Georgethefierce · Post by **Georgethefierce** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:00 am

and being one of two St4 cars on track with a bunch of STi's and a BMW makes for a lot of left arm exercise

rajito · Post by **rajito** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:11 am

I agree, the track time was awesome and the people were great. I believe we did get four full 25 minute sessions.

The lack of yellow flags was really sketchy. They have to revisit that, for everyone's safety.

I also think they shouldn't be lecturing people just for going fast.

On the other hand, it was their first event at NHIS and they were trying to keep things as sane and simple as possible. I'll run with them again, but only if they use at least yellow flags, and preferably all the flags (red, passing, etc.)

Raj

JayBay · Post by **JayBay** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:42 am

My comments echo what everybody else is saying. The amount of track time was great, and our group was just about all COM'ers, so everybody was comfortable driving with each other. But the flagging call was seriously sketchy. I guess SCCA had a pretty tough race weekend with lots of carnage, so they were really pushing us to slow down and play nice so they wouldn't get any more bad publicity. I'd do another one... but not unless they change the flagging and passing rules.

KCZ · Post by **KCZ** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:23 am

I was one of the faster cars in the intermediate run group (about 18 cars, I think), and got stuck behind slower traffic more than I would have liked. I got warned by the chief instructor for completing a couple of passes in the braking zones, after getting pointby's.

I also echo the comments about lack of yellow and debris flags. I started into Turn 9 to find the left side of the track covered with gravel, then 2 or 3 laps later on the cooldown lap, the cleanup crew was out there with brooms, again without any warning. Also, the person at pit-out kept sending cars out onto the track when I was already turning into the south chicane. I don't think s/he was even watching for cars coming down the front straight at times. I got up-close-and-personal looks at the rear ends of a Miata, VW, and Volvo (?).

Overall, it was a good amount of track time, and I had a great instructor with me, but I think the safety issues could be improved upon.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karen
Red 350Z

eclip5e · Post by **eclip5e** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:45 am

KCZ wrote:I was one of the faster cars in the intermediate run group (about 18 cars, I think), and got stuck behind slower traffic more than I would have liked. I got warned by the chief instructor for completing a couple of passes in the braking zones, after getting pointby's.

I also echo the comments about lack of yellow and debris flags. I started into Turn 9 to find the left side of the track covered with gravel, then 2 or 3 laps later on the cooldown lap, the cleanup crew was out there with brooms, again without any warning. Also, the person at pit-out kept sending cars out onto the track when I was already turning into the south chicane. I don't think s/he was even watching for cars coming down the front straight at times. I got up-close-and-personal looks at the rear ends of a Miata, VW, and Volvo (?).

Overall, it was a good amount of track time, and I had a great instructor with me, but I think the safety issues could be improved upon.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karen
Red 350Z

Passing in braking zones is a no-no at these types of events.
And you're not one to talk about not-getting point bys. I was stuck behind you for a good 3 laps, and even got up right beside you early on the front straight and still didn't get the point by.

I had fun, which is good. I'm still not sure why I was put into the Yellow group, and it took all afternoon to get my instructor and that Noam guy together to discuss bumping me up to green (Noams fault, not my instructors).

Noam just was either "ask me again in 5 minutes", talking to his wife on the phone, in the car, or shooting the shit with his peeps. He really needed to get his shit together and organize.

I think a few things would have made this event much better:

Passing in front straight, 2-3, and over hill
Run groups better separated
Yellow, red flags
Low/high powered cars separated in yellow and green groups (there is no reason to have Miatas and sentras with turbo or big block cars, just not fun to pass or be passed-by).

Tsurara · Post by **Tsurara** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:46 am

eclip5e wrote: Passing in braking zones is a no-no at these types of events.
And you're not one to talk about not-getting point bys. I was stuck behind you for a good 3 laps, and even got up right beside you and still didn't get the point by.

When the GReddy front lip comes thru, ya'll better vacate!

MRLM3 · Post by **MRLM3** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:42 pm

I'm sure the organizers would appreciate some constructive feedback from some of you that were there. This is a new national initiative for SCCA and while they do a great job at running races, they are newbees at running DE's-two different animals. The flagging thing is a little disturbing. The two models used in DE's are to pay for flaggers (COM) or have the drivers flag. SCCA race flaggers are volunteers and they may have had a difficult time getting them after working races for two straight days. I know that they were short of instructors as late as Saturday because I got solicited on the grid before one of my sessions.

I'm also sure that they were being overly cautious with their first event-no more carnage than normal for the race weekend!

Raj being brought in for being too fast. Now that's funny

Mark Swinehart · Post by **Mark Swinehart** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:08 pm

I noticed that some of the corner workers were the same ones which work at COM events.

MRLM3 · Post by **MRLM3** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:24 pm

I noticed that this weekend too. Saw the guy that usually does our pit out for example. I'm sure some of the workers will show up for anything but if a worker had to prioritize, I would think that working a DE with no pay would be at the bottom of the list. (I'm assuming SCCA didn't pay)

rajito · Post by **rajito** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:11 pm

MRLM3 wrote:Raj being brought in for being too fast. Now that's funny

Well, if I sold my house and forwarded the check to Turner and Hoosier, I will be much quicker!

Raj

COM Sports Car Club

NER PDE at NHIS

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