Expired harnesses

[savage217]

I would just like to bring something up that I feel does not make a whole lot of sense to me as well as a few other com members I have talked with. This winter I acquired a 6 point Schroth harness that is now expired. I know the owner and car that the harness was in. He did a couple of track days each year, had never crashed with them, and garaged his car whenever it was not on track. The harnesses look brand new at first glance and to the untrained eye. Unfortunately, due to the rules I am unable to use this harnesses. My question is why? If I were to sign a waiver or something along those lines, is that not sufficient enough to get me through tech inspection?

I find it hard to believe a stock 3 point belt that is now 17 years old would be safer than this 6 point top of the line harness that has never been in a crash, barely in sunlight, and only 3-5 years old. I'd also like to bring up the fact that if I were an instructor, I could technically get by with this harness in my car due to the fact instructors can tech their own car. Why is it that licensed drivers need to go through tech and instructors do not? To me, if the piece of equipment one wants to use that is without a doubt safer than what one currently has (despite being past the "marketing expiration dates") why can one not use them? I especially do not understand this when it comes to only affecting that one person. If, god forbid, the harness did somehow fail. It would fail in a crash. At that point it would be only myself effected by that. It is not like I am talking about something that if it were to fail could potentially put others at risk. Not trying to stir up controversy here, I just do not understand this rule when it comes to something like this.

[Chrispy]

You can have them rewebbed and recertified, I don't think it is that expensive. Call HMS and ask. A little money for some piece of mind probably isn't a bad idea.

[breakaway500]

Good points,Nick. Expiration dates are on many things..food...medicine..helmets..belts. Just because something is past its expiration date does not always mean it has become "bad"...so,when does one draw the line? Never? 10 years? 20? That is why Snell,SFI, FIA etc have developed time in-service guideline standards,and they all tend to error on the side of safety. Not a bad thing,unless you are on the side of having to replace those safety items frequently. It is the price one pays to play,so to speak.
DOT belts don't have a date of expiration,and that is the accepted standard.You could place a time limit on their in service use as well,but it would really restrict many cars from participating in track events, as stock DOT belts are very expensive to replace compared to a generic harness.
Personally,I feel DOT belts should expire just like a harness,as some I have seen..all chewed up and sun bleached,are downright scary!
It does seem silly to allow 3 point DOT belts on track in a stock 200mph Corvette, yet require routine harness replacement on any car that has a harness,but,that is the accepted safety standards and rules in effect at most HPDE and racing organizations.
You could submit a COM rules change to alter the harness replacement requirements..but I doubt your proposal will go far.Don't let that stop you,though..
Technically,any instructor using an outdated harness is breaking the rules. They may be able "get away" with it routinely,but it is still wrong.If they were protested,or set a track record and required an inspection,the car would fail if the harness were out of date,and be disqualified.
Signing a waiver to allow personal safety exemptions....hmm...can you imagine the precedent that would create? No helmets..flip-flops...t-shirts..shorts..once again..where does one draw the line? Having overly strict standards for personal safety is better than not having any standards,in my opinion.

[brucesallen]

My Schroth belts are FIA certified and good for five years. I just replaced them. HMS says that they can no longer be rewebbed, but must be replaced. small $$.

In spite of waivers that entrants sign for COM and the track, lawsuits still happen. That is why we pay a lot of money for insurance. If we were to knowingly violate our own safety rules we would be exposing ourselves and our insurance company.

Although it is a good idea to install racing belts in all classes, we only require them in higher performance classes where probability of high-force crashes is greater.

I suggest getting a HANS too. There are very few car to car crashes in COM but two years ago a COM instructor pulled out in front of my from behind a wall and I T-boned him at 50 mph impact speed according to my data acquisition. I didn't even have a sore neck. Only wallet.

[TroyV]

I used to run expired belts, and had the very same attitude when it came to the whole planned obsolescence thing. I was pissed off at idea that the safety agencies, and the belt manufacturers could be in cahoots in order to drive revenue.

...and maybe that business plan is true.

...but now since I have folks in the car, whether they be students, or hot lap ride along passengers, I want to make sure that my safety gear is up to snuff, not only in the mechanical sense, but also in the legal sense. The instructors take a great deal of care when they are taking passengers around the track, but if any incidents were to happen, it behooves us to make sure we have the bases covered.

[naschmitz]

$199 for an FIA harness http://www.saferacer.com/schroth-clubma ... uctid=2140

About the cost of a tire and it lasts five years. And I wish Corvette tires were $199.

[Shawn624]

Nick,

I agree that a rule that encourages people to choose a less safe alternative (3 point stock harness of any age and in any condition) can't be the right answer. I was suprised to find out about this rule during tech on my Corvette. I was told that I couldn't run the 6 point harness, but I could use my 1993 3 point stock belts.


Do the stock belts degrade more slowly than the competition harnesses?

[savage217]

I ended up buying a gforce 6 point harness today for 150 shipped from apexperformance. Love that place.

Shawn,

Supposedly DOT street 3 point belts do not expire because they are made with material that does not fatigue or weaken like a competition belt supposedly does. Honestly I doubt that is true when you take into account how belts were made back in the 90's like mine and your car were and then compare it to say a top of the line Schroth competition harness made in the late 2000's. I would trust the Schroth belt a heck of a lot more than my weathered 3 point. I think it is all a bunch of crap and they just put expiration dates on so they can continue to stay in business and get people coming back. If you think about it, if a harness never expired, a lot of companies probably wouldn't be around right now. MY 2 cents anyway.

[StephanAlfa]

All good points and all in the interest of safety... now I have a question:
Can a Race HELMET (say Snell 2005) be re-certified if in pristine condition???
I would hate to send mine (when it expires) to have it painted by Alan Mosca (Sid Mosca son, the guy who became famous by painting Ayrton Senna's helmet and now paints about 95% of all F-1 helmets) because he "ain't" cheap!

[brucesallen]

the issue with helmets is that the cushioning foam deteriorates.

I had my custom helmet design done by Squier Design. Now, when I buy a new helmet every two years, I just order a new decal for cheap.

[TroyV]

I think another thing the manufacturers don't (and can't really) take into account is how much actual use these belts are getting. I'm pretty sure the dates are implied with regard to maximum usage.

One could argue that a well funded racer in the southwest (or some other place it doesn't get cold) could be in the car driving two or more days a week, and could be doing it year round. There could be co-drivers, enduros with multiple driver changes...etc... The point being, that belt is getting a significant amount of use, and may actually no longer be effective for the total 5 year duration.

To me, a guy doing 8 track events a year or less, the expiration is definitely excessive, but there probably isn't a way to determine the amount of use over the time period, aside from actual fraying or other damage you can actually see. So we are stuck with planned obsolescence based on professional racers usage.

[CP]

8-10 race weekends per year, going on 4 years now and my Schroth belts are starting to look a bit ratty. I'm going to be happy to replace them next winter, a year before they're due for replacement.

[blazer178]

Now I race with two other groups......One says that SFI. belts have too be replaced every 3yrs. the other group says SFI. belts have too be replaced every 5 yrs.............So I guess the question is 2yrs,3yrs,5yrs.

[breakaway500]

To make matters even more confusing, the same G-Force Pro camlock 5 or 6 point harness in a pull up adjusting setup is only 2yrs. approved (SFi),yet the same harness in a pull down setup is 5 yrs.(FIA) Why?

[savage217]

The one I got said SFI and FIA approved. WTF does that mean?