SS wheel question.

[betelgeuse]

"provided they are not larger than the stock diameter and width." I interpret this to mean the stock wheels that came on the car,regardless of their position. Therefore,if you removed the STOCK 17" front wheels and replaced them with taller/wider wheels,you would be in violation of the rule.

ok. We're down to using half sentences.

"Cars delivered with wheels greater than 17 inches in diameter may use wheels that are 17 inches or
greater in diameter,"

So we can run 18s on all 4 corners

Just saying. It should be rewritten to say exactly what it means.

Greg

[kfoote]

As a little bit of intent here, as I was on the BOD when this rule was originally proposed:

The intent of the rule was to allow cars to run a wheel of smaller diameter and equal width to the stock wheels. The primary reason for this was that at the time the rule was proposed, there was a very limited selection of 18" and 19" track wheels and tires available, and they were significantly more expensive than their 17" counterparts. With the current increased ability of 18" wheels and tires, and the closing of the gap in their pricing, I'd propse that that this be changed to 18" from 17, (19"+ track wheels and tires are still much more expensive than 18's) and add a clause about stock or smaller wheel width than the stock size on that axle.

[breakaway500]

You could also eliminate the entire 17" sentence allowing the exception to using stock wheel sizes,and require SS cars to run stock wheel sizes and offsets.

Sure would make the scrutineers job easier when teching,and eliminate any potential confusion to what "stock" really means.

[paultg]

You could also eliminate the entire 17" sentence allowing the exception to using stock wheel sizes,and require SS cars to run stock wheel sizes and offsets.

Sure would make the scrutineers job easier when teching,and eliminate any potential confusion to what "stock" really means.

I like this idea. I recall thinking about running SS with my Miata (a 91 with stock 14x6 wheels). Later NA models were available with 15" rims, but in SS it is my understanding i could not move up to the 15" rim (which would allow alot more tire options.). I don't think the rule should allow any deviation from stock. I see a bit about cars with 12" dia rims but are there any out there?

[Chrispy]

You could also eliminate the entire 17" sentence allowing the exception to using stock wheel sizes,and require SS cars to run stock wheel sizes and offsets.

Sure would make the scrutineers job easier when teching,and eliminate any potential confusion to what "stock" really means.

I like this idea. I recall thinking about running SS with my Miata (a 91 with stock 14x6 wheels). Later NA models were available with 15" rims, but in SS it is my understanding i could not move up to the 15" rim (which would allow alot more tire options.). I don't think the rule should allow any deviation from stock. I see a bit about cars with 12" dia rims but are there any out there?

Forcing cars to run 19" or even 20" rims because that is how they were delivered could be a bit debilitating don't you think? Most race tires aren't even made in those sizes.

I think the prudent thing would be to preserve the original intent of the rule and simply update it to 18" instead of 17" now that 18" racing tires are common place. Some improvement in the wording to clarify the intent can be made at the same time.

[TroyV]

Hey Nate....I think we have a scrutineer candidate here.

[breakaway500]

Yes..heaven forbid that we make STOCK cars run STOCK equipment in the STOCK classes!

In my eyes,if someone wants to run something other than STOCK..let them move to a non STOCK class.There are plenty of them..
Seriously,if you owned a car with 19" wheels and wanted to compete in a STOCK class..but did not want to buy a set of wheels/tires,it could put you at a disadvantage against someone who could afford to buy lighter wheels and tires in place of their STOCK wheels/tires,and I know,classification does not guarantee you will be competitive in class..but what happened to the intent of the STOCK classification? Run them factory stock,or move to a "modified" class!

[Chrispy]

Given that the stock classes are currently broken up almost solely by weight/HP then it is only fair that they be allowed to compare on equal tire (against other makes in the class). Either that or eliminate race tires from stock class and make them run OEM TW! But then tire would have to be equated into the formula and it makes classing more difficult.

Really if you think you're going to have a huge advantage by saving 2 pounds of rotating mass per corner then you should really be looking somewhere else for your winning edge.

[betelgeuse]

I agree with Mark on this one. In fact I had already bought 2 sets of wheels in stock sizes before I even started this thread. I know what the intent of the rule is. It's winter and I'm bored.

I ran my 12 year old m3 in SSA last year and with the stock wheels (17x7.5 front, 17x8.5 rear) and smallish 225 tires and set 2 track records. So I don't think running stock wheels is a disadvantage at all in showroom stock.

If the rule was changed to stock sizes only I doubt if cars like the GT-R with 530hp, all wheel drive, and dual clutch paddle shifting rev matching transmission would be at a disadvantage, even if it does come with 20" wheels. I don't think a 18" wheel would fit over its monster brakes anyway.

Anyway, IMO the rule is unclear and needs to be reworded or changed to stock sizes only.

Chris. Being able to run r compounds keeps the older cars competitive against cars like the GT-R, and saving 2 pound per corner might be the difference between winning and losing.



Greg

[breakaway500]

2lbs? Being allowed to swap your 20" wheels for 18" will save you a LOT more than a few lbs. per corner,especially if you go with a forged wheel vs. cast.
If it's all about keeping things "competitive" in STOCK classes..STOCK equipment should be required for everyone, so anyone entering a STOCK car in a STOCK class will be up against the same STOCK competition,regardless of make and model.
Allowing significant equipment modifications over STOCK should put you into a non STOCK class. Like I said,there are plenty of them available in the COM classification structure!

I really don't understand the resistance against running in a modified class if you have upgraded your car from STOCK.

[TroyV]

Hey Mark... I think you might need a new keyboard. Your all caps key appears to be sticky.

[breakaway500]

^Maybe you need new glasses..they aren't ALL caps...

[naschmitz]

2lbs? Being allowed to swap your 20" wheels for 18" will save you a LOT more than a few lbs. per corner,especially if you go with a forged wheel vs. cast.
If it's all about keeping things "competitive" in STOCK classes..STOCK equipment should be required for everyone, so anyone entering a STOCK car in a STOCK class will be up against the same STOCK competition,regardless of make and model.
Allowing significant equipment modifications over STOCK should put you into a non STOCK class. Like I said,there are plenty of them available in the COM classification structure!

I really don't understand the resistance against running in a modified class if you have upgraded your car from STOCK.

This reminds me of other threads where we debate the meaning of "Street" in Street Prepared. You can have a non-street legal car in street prepared, but you have to run DOT tires because it is a street class, not a prepared class.

What does Stock mean? As delivered? As I should have ordered the car if I knew I was going to race it? LOL! Who's to say Bob's car isn't a C5Z06 if he converts all the pieces to stock C5Z06 pieces?

[breakaway500]

Stock means exactly that; stock, as delivered by a manufacturer.Yes,you can upgrade the brake pads and tires to more track oriented equipment as per the rules,but if you start to allow other than stock dimensional modifications to components,it is no longer a "stock" car that rolled off the assembly line. You know...STOCK.

A street prepared car still appears "stock"..like the same model you might see on the street..but is (usually) highly modified.Street prepared rules only stipulate that a "kit" car in SP classes must be street legal,not every car...

Cut the exterior sheetmetal fender panels on any car,and welcome to Prepared!

I honestly do feel that the SS classes should be for a stock car,as built and delivered,regardless of manufacturer or model.

Why else have a STOCK class?

[Chrispy]

I agree that stock should be stock, but the issue remains that modern cars come with stupid sized wheels not suitable for the track. What you are proposing would prevent many many cars from running competitively in stock class. Not that there really is any regular competition in stock class anyways outside of SSU.

You're right there is plenty of competition in ST and SP, and that seems to be were most people are gravitating towards these days.