Trialing with Transponders

kfoote · Post by **kfoote** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:43 am

COM looked into transponders for timed runs. In order to do it without losing track time for switching the transponders among cars, a minimum of 15 transponders would be required. 15 x $300 = $4500, which is significantly more than the cost of a good electronic autocross setup that would effectively accomplish the same thing. You also need people to be running and installing the transponders, requiring extra volunteers, with the timed run being the first test of that transponder on that car. To insure everyone would have a transponder for every session, COM would need a minimum of 120 transponders. 120 x $300 = $36,000, which works out to be about 5 events worth of track rental at most tracks. You would also need someone stationed at the gate to pick up transponders. Aside from being more expensive, they both result in needing more volunteers to run the event, not less. 
 
If the TT day schedule was changed from its current format of practice by run groups to open track, you'd end up with 80+ cars wanting to go on track at the same time. Where it has been possible, fewer run groups (and yes, completely open sessions) have been done.

boltonite · Post by **boltonite** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:36 pm

If the TT day schedule was changed from its current format of practice by run groups to open track, you'd end up with 80+ cars wanting to go on track at the same time. 
 
In theory, but in practice (and imo) that just doesn't happen. Assume on TT day you have one 3-hour session (9 - 12pm) for practice. People will stagger their time on track - 80 cars will not be on the grid at 9 AM for a 3 hour session. I suppose you could limit the number of cars (at 9 AM, allow only the first XX cars on track and then allow N more out after N cars come in) if necessary. 
 
Shutting down the track 8 times to stage 4 different run groups has inherent inefficiencies, but if you absolutely must control the maximum number of cars on track then the current run group structure does achieve that.

comsccAdmin · Post by **comsccAdmin** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:14 am

This topic wouldn't be complete without at least one 
serious dissenting vote, so here it is. ;-) 
 
Allowing open passing would completely change the 
character of this club, and that simply will not happen. 
If you want to pass in the corners, you know which other 
clubs to run with. This doesn't even count the fact that 
open passing would do horriffic things to both our 
insurance fees and track fees, as most tracks now 
charge different rates for school versus race days. Right 
now, only Watkins Glen charges us a different fee for 
Time Trial day, but if we started passing in corners, that 
would definitely trigger everyone's definition of racing. 
I don't even want to think about the increase in the 
number of car-to-car incidents. 
 
Dan Malek's electronic timing system basically eliminates 
the human reaction factor in timing, and I would be very 
interested to hear from people with HotLap setups what, 
if any, delta they see between their recorded times and 
the official posted club times. 
 
In order to be fair, everyone needs to be timed using the 
same format and system, so that means either everyone 
needs to be using transponders, or no one. Although I 
don't think the cost is prohibitive to do transponders, 
there is only benefit if the format is changed, and so far, 
I don't think any of the suggested format changes are 
good for the general membership, or the club as a whole. 
 
If anyone wants to propose a format change that uses 
transponders, results in a substantial increase in track 
time, and doesn't change the flavor of the way COM 
runs its events, please attend a Board meeting and make 
your proposal (please include equipment costs, run group 
formats, and such). Although it might be non-trivial to 
sell an additional level of complication to an already 
hectic time trial day, if the reward is large enough, we 
could certainly do it. 
 
-Herb

Dan Baldwin · Post by **Dan Baldwin** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:55 pm

This isn't a good idea for a number of reasons. In addition to those mentioned above, here are a couple more: 
 
DRAFTING 
Like Christine mentioned, at some tracks this will greatly influence times. To be competitive, you will eventually be pretty much REQUIRED to draft a similar-speed or slightly quicker car for some laps. There's a safety issue, but also a major PITA issue here. 
 
BLOCKING 
So you're on track and your competition is right behind you. You've already done some good laps, so how tempting is it to block your "buddy" to prevent him getting a good time? I mean, how easy is it to botch a turn, or simply take it at 8/10ths, right in front of him? You can rest assured this WILL happen. Even worse, drivers could have "friends" out there to help block their competition for them as well in a mutual "tit for tat" arrangement. You block my competition, I'll block yours. 
 
There's a certain purity to the current arrangement that would be totally lost if the suggested method for timing is adopted. 
 
Anyway, if you couldn't tell, I HATE this idea<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:"> 
 
For what that's worth... 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

cfossum · Post by **cfossum** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:45 pm

I was thinking it would be a great idea if I let my buddy in a faster car use my transponder for a while!!!

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:07 pm

Carl how about just a faster DRIVER in your car ? 
 
anonymous whimp who doesn't want 5 students at Tremblant.

Jack ffr1846 · Post by **Jack ffr1846** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:36 pm

Is there anything on Bruce Allen's car that a magnet will stick to? 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> 
 
jack

Crusin · Post by **Crusin** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:43 pm

Car - No 
Bruce - Yes<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

brucesallen · Post by **brucesallen** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:47 am

... I already have an SCCA transponder-- AND a lap timer on the Pi Dash.

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:51 pm

Still not clear if that's on you or the car ?

brucesallen · Post by **brucesallen** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:40 am

Question: can you see a Greased Shadow?

deimos · Post by **deimos** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:08 pm

Dan, this is called SCCA Club Racing. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

Crusin · Post by **Crusin** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:15 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Question: Can you see a Greased Shadow<hr></blockquote> 
 
Only on Greased Hog day. And if so, 6 more weeks of bad racing

Jack ffr1846 · Post by **Jack ffr1846** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:10 pm

Hope this works here.... 
 
<img src="http://www.freebmw.net/asquaredrex/NHIS ...  
 
This shows that with enough mirrors, one CAN see a greased shadow. It also shows proper behavior when a car that's 10 seconds a lap appears in your mirror. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
jack

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:02 pm

"It also shows proper behavior" 
 
Funny that doesn't look like a middle finger in that point by. 
 
Scott

COM Sports Car Club

Trialing with Transponders

Re: transponders, time trials, and opinions..oh my

Re: transponders, time trials, and opinions..oh my

Re: transponders, time trials, and opinions..oh my

don't think so

cheat factor

Re: cheat factor

What an idea?

Re: What an idea?

All set

Re: All set

Question

RE: don't think so

Re: Question

Re: Question

Re: Question

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