Any interest in a new class - ST-M?

[dinoracer]

Sitting in traffic this morning, with time to daydream.....

Whereas ST-4 has become overrun with Miatas, Maybe we should consider a separate class for the ST level Miatas. Roughly like this:

ST-M - Eligible cars: Mazda Miata prepared to Street Touring rules. Hp/wt ratio no better than 16.0 lbs/hp.

The HP limit will place the NA and NB Miatas in the same class; the NC Miatas will stay in ST-3.

Make Model weight lbs hp Ib/hp

Mazda Miata 1999 2295 140 16.4
Mazda Miata 2000 2328 140 16.6
Mazda Miata 2001-02 2383 142 16.8
Mazda Miata 2004-05 2447 142 17.2
Mazda Miata 2003 2479 142 17.5
Mazda Miata 1996-1997 1.8 2288 133 17.2
Mazda Miata 1994-1995 1.8 2288 128 17.9
Mazda Miata 1990-1993 1.6 2222 116 19.2

I don't think the 99/00 Miata would be as much an overdog as these numbers show, but I don't know. Full disclosure, I run a 2000 Miata, but typically run times mid-pack to the current ST-4 times, and I consider myself a good but not great driver - plenty of room to improve..

Participation is optional; that is, you can continue to run your Miata in ST-4 or ST-3 if you wish

Thoughts?

[TroyV]

If all the Miatas on the list left ST3 & 4 and went to this, Who would be left in ST4? Chuck and Mark? And who would be left in ST3?

I sort of feel like ST4 has grown specifically because there are more cars there and the competition is really tight. I'd hate to see dilution of the classes destroy something good. That said, if a re-org of the classes and power to weight ratios require me to move to another class...like say ST3.. I probably wouldn't have an issue with it. Hell....I've been considering a move to SPC just to get away from Wasilko.

[WillM]

I don't know that a new class is the answer, but I do think the idea has some merit. I also think it is a reasonable question to ask.

1999-2005 Miatas are at the very bottom of the cutoff for ST3, whereas 1990-1997 1.8 Miatas are close to the very top of the cutoff for ST4.

[breakaway500]

Limiting a class to a specific make and model seems a bit against how COM classes have evolved,in my eyes.

[dinoracer]

I don't know if it's the right way to go either, but I figured if any subject can get the members into a "rules meeting" frame of mind, something Miata -related would do it.

I do agree with the mantra " no car is gauranteed to be competivite in it's assigned class"; even though my current car is at the bottom of ST-3. I'm thowing this idea out to see if we can increase the fun, not sub-divide classes.

I guess I'm seeing this as a "spec Miata Light" within COM, where the similar NA and NB Miatas will be pretty closely matched to each other, preserving and expending the excellent ST-4 based battle we have this year. It also would open up ST-4 a little for the non-Miatas to have a shot at being at the top.

The Miatas aren't going away anytime soon, and I'm thinking as the NB generation ( up to 2005) starts aging, there will be a good base of new cars coming in to keep a Miata class strong.

[wizzman]

I like the creative thinking but... Maybe I am wrong but it seems that an NB Miata modified to the extent that the top ST4 Miatas are would have a significant power advantage though. I don't think anyone is really pushing an ST3 Miata to it's max potential at the moment given the lack of competition in the class.

[chaos4NH]

Since we already "made" 1.6 Miatas competitive by allowing 1.8 swaps, I guess anything is possible if you have enough votes. In that case we did try to guarantee competitiveness, no? The 1.6's should have stayed in their own class and the 1.8's place in another.
The slope gets slipperier every year. Watch the hands go up for adjustable fuel pressure regulators and Air intake temp regulators this year.
ST is supposed to limit engine mods to headers (must retain cats), suspension, tires, some allowable brake upgrades, ECU up grades AND be STREET LEGAL in the state of NH. Like I said, the slope gets slipperier.

[tommac]

Tom C. , must have been one heck of a traffic jam. I like the way things are "fleshed out" on the forum. It seems (to me)everyone does a great job with their input. Keep it up.

[6PAK72]

I hear Sam, but we have already begun conventional warfare in the ST classes.

I will open a new thread, but perhaps we should be thinking that ST has slid far enough down the competition slope that we need to require roll cages, etc. If we allow A6s for cornering gforce, and suspension mods are unlimited to handle the loads....aint much Street going on here. My Miata has far more in common with Gordy's pre-swap SP car than it does with Rebecca's new SS car...

In the abscence, I agree with Troy, the competition is making the class a blast!

[boltonite]

An ST-M "miata" class could be created to run in parallel with ST3/ST4 and SPC, the "ST-M" class would allow all Street Touring mods plus all current SCCA- (or NASA) allowed Spec Miata mods, entrants would need a current SCCA or NASA log book for a Spec Miata with no "mix and match" allowed (e.g., an SCCA SM car cannot run headers or swap motors, an ST miata cannot gut the interior).

An extra TT fee ($10? $25?) would enable an entrant to run in both classes in parallel. The competitors would be eligible for event and year end class trophies for both classes.

Fwiw, I think if COM is to try to accommodate Miatas (or any other cars) prepped to other sanctioning body standards (SCCA , NASA, PCA, BMWCCA, FCA, etc), COM can simply "recognize" such classes and allow participants to compete in a manner similar to ST-M -- i.e., cars would fall into a COM class and also an approved sanctioning body class (w/ an extra TT fee). Entrants would still need to meet minimum COM safety rules no matter what.

This is not a new idea, racing organizations have been doing this in recent years to attract/poach members from other clubs, as well as revising their class rules (e.g., ITR, SM2) to be more inclusive. It is WAY easier than overhauling or incorporating someone else's car classification scheme and rule set.
FF

[breakaway500]

By parallel,do you mean adding the class as a concurrent class, like they do at other competition style events..like a concurrent class for women,seniors,veterans, juniors etc?

[boltonite]

Yes, the same TT results would be applied in both classes (if the entrant wished to compete in both). The BoD can decide how (or whether) to try to fold in the class into the TT series. This would have the least impact on the current class structure or how the TTs are run.

[TroyV]

Sorry for my miscellaneous ramblings....

More classes seem like adding more work for the folks that are doing the scoring and registration, not to mention the added expense of more trophies covering a group we already have classing for. Some of these volunteers are already stretched thin doing what they already do for the club.

Being honest, (and I think this was the case at one time...) I'd rather see the NA 1.8 cars move to ST3 and give the 1.6 cars ST4 along with the non Miata entrants, or, less desirably, move the NB ST3 Miatas down to ST4 to potentially become the over dog, than to add a Miata specific class and allow a parallel classing thing to happen. It would seem to be very convoluted, just to accommodate a group of one platform type, that most likely will not run on a spec tire.

I for one would have more seriously considered staying with my 1.6 motor had the 1.8's been classed in ST3. Having run the 1.6 for two seasons, I can tell you without a doubt that they are at a noticeable disadvantage to their 1.8 counterparts. The 1.6 driver has to drive the car literally, to coin the popular term, "flat out" just to make reasonable lap times in ST4. It is pretty obvious from the results that the 1.8 cars have been dominant this year.

It is definitely a quandary. ST3 hasn't had much in terms of participants in the last few years by comparison, and ST4 has literally exploded. Still...if I were still driving a 1.6, was running on the best possible tire I could afford to run, and was busting my ass out there with the car at the limit of traction all the way around, and still was running mid pack, I probably wouldn't have minded seeing the 1.8s bump to ST3. I was basically told "competition isn't guaranteed...tough shit...drive faster or go buy a faster car". The same could be said about NA 1.8's in ST3 against NB's with more juice.

As for requiring roll cages etc... If we are not mandating that SP cars need them, we can't really mandate ST cars get them.....as much as it is a very wise idea to have one.

[nateh]

The Miata Cup derives from many of the above considerations. The past winners have greatness oozing from every pore.

http://www.driversupply.com/cgi-bin/sto ... ta_Cup.htm

No prizes for spotting the typo on the page.

[boltonite]

No worries, its all idle talk until someone submits a rules change. While I have had issues w/ how miatas are classed (IMO, a spec miata is WAY LESS prepared than a full-blown ST prepped miata), I think COM would do well to look at being more inclusive (even to those who don't happen to be Miata lovers) w/o totally revamping their rule set, which has been talked (to death) for several years now...
FF