4 wheel allignment for 94 Miata

[Mario944]

Hi guys.
After hitting the end of the curbing on track out on turn 7 last week at NJMP, i am now repairing my bent wheel and having a 4 wheel allignment done.
So what is the best all around camber settings for the Miata so i can beat Troy? I'm sure this should do it.
PS, i do drive this car on the street at times, you know to Church and trips to the store for Geritol. (:

[Chrispy]

To beat Troy you are going to need more than Geritol.

How severe was the wheel damage? If it was anything more than a small dent I would think I would opt for wheel replacement, especially after seeing all these wheel failure videos. Have you checked the rest of the wheel thoroughly for fatigue?

[Mario944]

Turns out the rim is junk. I guess i will be looking for a set.

[Shawn624]

I just had mine done to Flyin Miata's specs. Sadly, I did not beat Troy. Here's the link for their alignment numbers: http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/alignment.php I drove the car to and from NJMP and didn't notice any problems with driveability.

[TroyV]

I'm not sure if you want to buy new Mario, but Jeff W and Derek T have the new D-Force wheels. They look to be very stout, and I think they meet the spec miata requirement on weight. They are rather good looking wheels to boot, and are cheap to buy.

[6PAK72]

I'm happy with the Kosei k-1's, and my set in white is really easy to spot cracks...

As for alignment, the numbers that Scott is using down at Fast Track are feeling pretty darn good. Give him a call.

[TroyV]

SHHHHH!!!!!

What Jeff meant to say was that Scott has no clue how to do any of this. He is just awful!!

Where you really want to go is Meineke. Those guys are the shite... Don't forget to ask for as much negative caster and positive camber as you can get.

[Dtangard]

SHHHHH!!!!!

What Jeff meant to say was that Scott has no clue how to do any of this. He is just awful!!

Where you really want to go is Meineke. Those guys are the shite... Don't forget to ask for as much negative caster and positive camber as you can get.

I agree with Troy here. Oh and the D Force wheels are really nice especially for $105 a wheel.

[WillM]

Mario,

Sage advice: "The recipe is meaningless without he cook". I think I read that in a fortune cookie once, and it stuck with me, despite not being funny when adding "in bed" at the end of it. But I digress.

Make an appointment with Les @ Apex. 508-229-0090. He has setup many, many Miatas and keeps records. Not just for you, but for every customer. There is decades of accumulated wisdom in there. Part of that knowledge is knowing what is possible, and at what ride heights. He also knows what the range should be. If a setting goes way out of range, that usually means that something is bent, and many shops would miss that.

Les also knows what works and what doesn't. He can talk to you about how your car is behaving versus how you'd like it to behave, and tailor the setup to your needs. If you don't know what you want, he can still give you a winning setup.

For the record, those Flyin' Miata specs aren't even good for street cars. I'd say the numbers are awful for track use. For example, the suggestion of more rear camber than front is just wrong. in general the front should have more negative camber than the rear by -0.4-0.5° (for example, Front -2.8°, rear -2.4°). The amount that is optimal for you will depend on the type of tire wear you are seeing and the tires you are running.

In general I would suggest 0 toe all around or 0" front and 1/32" - 1/16" rear. A hair of negative rear toe will make the car feel more stable at turn-in. A hair of negative front toe will make the car more stable at speed. That said, any toe will scrub speed, which is why 0 toe is "fastest" (if you are comfortable with the way it handles). A hair of rear toe seems to be a good compromise (in my experience).

Max front caster unless you have difficulty turning the steering wheel. I can tell you that 5.5° of front caster on a Miata with sticky race tires and manual steering is not fun at all, at least not for me. 3.5° is just about right.

That's my ballpark recipe, and you already know the cook I recommend.

[Mario944]

Thanks Will for your "spicy" reply!
My problem with Les is that i am in Vermont. I was hoping to be able to get the allignment done at my local shop. They are honest and do good work.
My main concern is getting a good all around camber setting. Right now i have more rear camber than front.
Do you have any recomendations for a good base camber setting? I do have Eibac springs on the car that lowered it about 1.5"
MB

[WillM]

Thanks Will for your "spicy" reply!
My problem with Les is that i am in Vermont. I was hoping to be able to get the allignment done at my local shop. They are honest and do good work.
My main concern is getting a good all around camber setting. Right now i have more rear camber than front.
Do you have any recomendations for a good base camber setting? I do have Eibac springs on the car that lowered it about 1.5"
MB

With stock suspension bushings, you are probably camber-limited in the front. There are off-set front upper bushings that allow a Miatato get much more camber.

I'd see what the max is that you can get on the front and equalize both sides. That's probably about -2.0°, but could be as low as -1.8° or as high as -2.4°. The max you'll be able to get depends on your ride height and I believe the amount of caster. There is a balancing act between caster and camber. You typically lose static camber when increasing caster and vice-versa. That said, the more caster you have, the more camber gain you'll end up with (camber gain = increase of negative camber as the suspension compresses).

Our cars are quite different, but i think a typical lowered/track Miata should be able to hit:
Front:
Camber -2.2° (go with a low of -1.8 to a high of -2.4°)
Toe: 0" / 0°
Caster: approx 3.5-4.0

Rear:
Camber -1.8 (keep it a few tenths of a degree less than front)
Toe: 0" or -1/32". -1.32" will make the rear-end more stable.

When you have the car setup, deliver it to the shop under typical race-weight. That would be about 1/2 tank of gas, no tool boxes inside, etc. Better yet if you can sit in the car when they do the alignment. If not, perhaps they would put dummy weight in the driver's seat. The driver's weight is significant, especially in a light car like the Miata. Some of the settings will change by as much as a couple of tenths by adding/subtracting driver weight, and those changes will not be symmetric from side-to-side or end-to-end.

Honestly, I'd just call Les. I'm sure he can point you in the right direction even if he doesn't do the work.

[Stynger]

Looks like Will beat me to it. My reply was

Mario,

Your local guy should be able to align the car, but the specs will depend on the car.
Lowering the car will help with negative camber.
To give you some idea, Miata's running sticky tires would like -3 degrees camber up front. Unless you have offset upper control arm bushings, you may not get that.
See what the car will give you and optimize what you have around it.
Max positive caster gives you more camber gain in the corners where it comes in handy.
The big one is to have the car set up weight wise how you drive it on the track and be sure you (or your weight) is sitting in the car during the alignment. It makes a big difference in such a light car.

[cuda6666]

And if Les is doing the allignment, make sure you don't rest your arm on the door sill during the operation

[Mario944]

Thank you Will, Les and all you guys (except Troy) for all your advice!! (:
One last question.
Can i get the car alligned with the smaller street tires on or should i put the track tires and wheels on??

[WillM]

I would think that the street tires would be fine. If you are corner balancing and setting ride heights, wear your competition wheels/tires.

Whichever tires you take, make sure they are properly inflated....