Running NJMP -Lightning this weekend

[blindsidefive0]

Dave and I are running with NASA at NJMP-Lightning this weekend.

Anyone got any good track tips for this configuration? Track guides (Nate - I assume you will be creating one for the August TT event?), good videos, anything that could help would be appreciated.

Note - looks like it might be pouring and raining the first day I'm there, which makes driving my dad's 964 that much more "exciting".

[Dave_G]

I just drove over three hours on that track last weekend. Lightning is a very fast, very fun track. Much of it is a blur, but maybe I can remember some things about the track. Keep in mind that my notes are for a slow Volvo 240 Lemon on street tires, so adjust accordingly. YMMV. Ryan may have some better notes.

• T1 is faster than it looks. It is uphill, so you will have more grip than you think, kind of like the Uphill at Lime Rock. Track out is blind, so the initial tendency is to be too late on the throttle. Once you learn where it is, you can be full throttle from the apex or sooner. If you crest the hill and you're still in the middle of the track, you were too slow. Take this turn in 3rd. This was my favorite part of the track.

• T2 and T3 can be taken as one sweeping right-hander. I was doing a little comfort braking for T2, which might not be necessary. No braking needed for T3. Keep to the right side of the track after T3 to set up for the left-hander.

• T4: nothing special here. just a regular left-hand turn.

• T5 is the trickiest turn on the track. It's a fairly sharp right-hander with a blind apex at the crest of a hill and a blind track out after the hill. Turn in late and cross the crest of the hill somewhat perpendicular. Get on the throttle as soon as you have grip after the crest. The track continues to curve to the right after the apex, so if you miss the apex, you'll run out of track quicker than you think (so don't miss the apex).

• T6 is a long, fast sweeper that approaches the bridge, taken full-throttle in 4th-gear.

• T7: the second of the two left-handers. Just a simple, textbook, 90° turn, taken in 3rd.

• T8 is another full-throttle curve over a crest that can be taken as a straight. For me, keeping it in 3rd was faster than shifting to 4th here.

• T9 (the Lightbulb) is a long, steeply banked 180° sweeper. The inside of the turn is banked a little more steeply than the outside, so the fastest way through it is mid-track or closer. Turn in from the left side, and then keep it mid-track or closer as you approach the apex, which is about 2/3 of the way around. You should be full throttle at least from the apex. There is a long straight following, and a good exit is critical. After tracking out continue to turn a little bit so that the car comes to around mid-track so that you're set up better for T10

• T10 is kind of a continuation of T9. There's another blind crest here. You want to be about mid-track so that when you pass the crest, the track comes up to meet you.

There are tons of YouTube videos, some good, some not so good. This is one of the better ones:

phpBB [video]

Have fun!

[blindsidefive0]

This forum is awesome - Dave, thanks for the notes. This is wicked helpful.

You compared T1 to LRP uphill - do your wheels actually need to be straight over the hill to mitigate chance of death? It looks like the guy in the video is "actively unwinding" as he crests.

For T2 it looks like the guy in the video ignores the apex (I assume to get out fully to track left prior to T3 turn in) - were you doing the same?

I know what you mean about bad videos for this track - I've done some searching and seen some bad stuff. In particular a super ego-maniac dude with an overly modified 911 was running lines that even I could tell were terrible, and I've never even seen the track. Thanks for posting this one with the e30 - his lines seem to make the most of each corner given his traction.

Has anyone run this track in the rain? Does water tend to build up anywhere or run across the track? I remember from Thunderbolt last year the rivers of flooding in a couple corners as well as the puddles at virtually every turn-in - does Lightning suffer from the same rain issues? Also, at T-bolt the fast dry line was all over the curbing, but the curbs were off-limits in the rain as they had pretty much 0 traction. Is Lightning the same way?

Thanks again for the help!

[Dave_G]

You compared T1 to LRP uphill - do your wheels actually need to be straight over the hill to mitigate chance of death? It looks like the guy in the video is "actively unwinding" as he crests.

No, it's not as dramatic as the LRP Uphill. I'm pretty sure I was also unwinding and moving across the track as I crested the hill. The people I saw who got into trouble in T1 were in trouble at the apex, well before the top of the hill.

For T2 it looks like the guy in the video ignores the apex (I assume to get out fully to track left prior to T3 turn in) - were you doing the same?

No I was actually right on the apex in both turns. I'm not convinced it was any faster, though. I'm guessing it's probably not a big difference, but I'd need a lap timer to know for sure.

Has anyone run this track in the rain? Does water tend to build up anywhere or run across the track? I remember from Thunderbolt last year the rivers of flooding in a couple corners as well as the puddles at virtually every turn-in - does Lightning suffer from the same rain issues? Also, at T-bolt the fast dry line was all over the curbing, but the curbs were off-limits in the rain as they had pretty much 0 traction. Is Lightning the same way?

Funny you should ask. Friday's practice session was in pouring to drizzling to pouring rain all day. It was good and soaked. However, as that was my first time ever on the track, I was still just trying to learn the line, and traction was very limited, so I wasn't really pushing hard and was staying off the curbs. So I can't really tell you how slippery they are, but if Thunderbolt's are slippery, I'd guess these are too. There was no place that I found a distinct rain line different from the dry line, and most others seemed to be driving the dry line too. Again though, this was my first time ever on the track, so take that for what it's worth. There was water everywhere, but the only place that I remember standing water being a significant problem was at the apex of T7, the left-hander after the bridge. There was quite a big puddle there that had all the cars keeping well off the apex.

[blindsidefive0]

Dave - again, thanks for the info. Dave L and I will be faster and safer (I hope?) because of it.

Re: turn 2 - Looking at the video and your description I would guess it depends on the car. I suspect that under-powered cars that turn well could probably shave distance without sacrificing measurable speed. In the 964 I'll probably leave a car width at the first apex to start (like the e30 in the video) and see how it feels - trailing throttle on turn in can be shady so a more "sweeping" single apex line might be in order...just a guess.

Re: rain line - good to know that the dry line isn't much different. I found myself re-learning Thunderbolt entirely the next day as it dried out.

I'm trying to write up super detailed track notes at all the tracks I'm going to, so after the weekend I'll throw up my findings. I was also given a video camera by Nissan so I'll attach that to the car (if it breaks, who cares) and try to get some footage.

[CP]

I've been using this race video as my tutorial leading up to a June visit to Lightning for me this season. When they've sorted themselves out after a few laps it gives you a good idea of braking points, turn-ins, when to get back to the throttle, line and so on.

[blindsidefive0]

Dave Lemoine and I are having a good event so far - the TT group is no non-sense, just get out on track. No meetings, tech your own car, open passing etc...lots of fun.

After 2 overcast runs, the skies opened up in the afternoon. Dave MURDERED everyone with the tires one COMSCC instructor was kind enough to let him borrow (in my SSB 325i)...it was like cheating - revenge against the horsepower monsters (vettes and STi/Evos that litter this place) that were flying in the dry. I...spun my dad's Porsche (captured on camera) - lucky for me, the car is fine.

I've been re-reading the notes on this forum after day 1, breaking down the in-car video, and comparing everything to some other good videos online. If I get some laps that are worth sharing I'll post them on this forum as a cheat sheet for the August event.

Dave G - you were spot on about the wet line. I think that apexes are JUST a bit later when wet, and there's almost no good way to manage the back end of the 964 through turns 2-4. However, the wet line is almost the same as the dry line...minus that puddle you mentioned at the apex of the sharp left hander.

[blindsidefive0]

Great weekend, lots of fun. Thanks for the tips, they helped a lot. Track notes and video are below. Hopefully they will help someone for the August COMSCC event at NJMP-Lightning...or maybe just used as an example by Nate of what NOT to do, either way.

T1 - The braking zone was crucial. In the 964 the brake point was in between the timing tower and the "3" (more conservative drivers and guys with big cars started before the timing tower). However, it was critical to get off the brakes smoothly and earlier than you think. You really need some big boy brakes (car was topped out in 4th gear going into the braking zone, which is about 135 mph), but good things happened when I just rolled the car with just a little trail braking and quickly got to WOT over the top.

T2 - the smallest possible touch of brakes was necessary if I did T1 correctly (you can barely notice it in the video), but the goal here was to basically just bleed speed while keeping the car neutral all the way to the outside of the track to set up T3.

T3 - a tap of the brakes was needed to get the car to turn (if I was fast through T2), but I had to be super careful here with the back end. This is a big turn for spins. The one goal of this turn was to "land" the car for a decent entry into T4.

T4 - I found the entry for this turn to be challenging. I was trying too hard to get the car to the right before turn in (and was late because of it - the guy in the e30 video in this thread makes this exact mistake at about 1:53), but later on I figured out how to just connect the dots and sacrifice a little car positioning to help with weight transfer. Track out all the way to the dirt - it's actually pretty harmless to drop a wheel beyond the curb if you are cooking. Keep turning left to bring the car most of the way to track left to set up T5.

T5 - This one was easier for me. I turned in just after the start of the curbing on the left, and tried to run over the apex curb at the top of the hill. The gearing was kind of weird with the tall gears in the 964 so I was basically WOT with not a lot of torque in 3rd gear at the top - but it actually worked out as the power kicked in down the hill to track-out (2nd gear here meant a shady shift point on the back of the hill). Once I figured out the turn-in and apex, I just carried more speed until I pushed all the way out to the track out curbing - corrections over the top were plentiful, but easy - if you hit the apex there's room to work with.

T6 - this was actually fast enough that the line mattered (at least in the 964). I tried to gently bring the car from T5 track out to T7 braking zone gently under full power and a 3-to-4 upshift.

T7 - braking point was at the end of the bridge (when the tires were good), and again getting off the brakes was important. Too much trail braking and I was correcting the tail for the entire corner. However, once the car set I was able to go full power (again, no torque in 3rd) well before the apex and track all the way out to the curb...and beyond (this was another place where it was harmless to drop a wheel - I was lucky enough to learn this by watching the racers). IMO, you are really selling yourself short if you don't use the curbing since there's a long WOT sweeper that follows.

T8 - WOT, but gradually work the car to the left to line up the Lightbulb. You want to go over the crest mid-track or else you make the turn tighter and may scrub speed, even at WOT.

T9 - I basically took the middle line all the way through, working the car down to the apex. I would try to be WOT well before the apex, but how far depended on how well I got the car to turn. I think this turn is a big place where you can loose time IN the turn itself. It's incredible long and fast so while exit is very important, I think you can lose time if you aren't at the limit on entry - the turn is long enough that you can scrub speed to line up the exit (although my video is not the best example of this - the biggest mistakes I make in the video are getting loose on lap 1 causing me to miss the apex by a couple feet and not carrying speed all the way to track out on lap 2...I'm about 2 feet shy). A lot of the non-time trialers (instructors, top HPDE group) on track would go easier out of this turn, rolling into the throttle between apex and track out - this costs multiple seconds. Different cars take different lines - plenty of cars took the mid line, but some came in from the extreme outside, while others dive bombed and doubled apexed. I don't know what's fastest.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?n ... Fmy_videos

And the video - 1:18.600, my dad's 964 in SSGT (Nitto-NT01s with 25-30 heat cycles and Koni Yellow shocks cranked all the way tight). I was disappointed with myself because this was actually my 3rd lap of the last session. I had open track later, but my tires were too hot - I should have taken it easy for a couple to let them cool down again before getting after it. Either way it was good enough to win my class (1st out of 1 competitors...), and was 0.8xx off the class record (insert excuse here: my car had 15 out of 20 unused performance points in the class). Without the mistake it might have been closer, and you can always carry that one extra tenth in each corner...