Questions

[offcamber09]

Former Trans Am cars are usually eligible for SCCA GT1 and are most certainly purpose built tube frame racecars. Wasn't Dave Foote's (ex-Brian Walls) road race stock car classed in PA? I think he ran 2:05 at WGI in that car- at the time I remember thinking that was incredibly fast. We now have street driven cars approaching that.

-Scott

[betelgeuse]

"

Or...maybe you should move all the kit car replicas to Formula Prepared as well??

.

Maybe not FP but one of the prepared classes.

Greg

[nateh]

If it's legal in SCCA GT1, then it is legal in PA.

[nateh]

Mark, if you think the rules should be changed, then now is a good time to act on that.The next BOD meeting is coming up, and rule change proposals are still being discussed.

[nateh]

The most recent version of the SCCA GCR that I have is from 2008. "9.1.2. GT CATEGORY SPECIFICATIONS" says that tube frames are allowed in GT.

However, it goes on to list a large number of things that can or can't be done. If you look at the GCR in light of your own car, you can probably figure out whether it fits. There are some vague annoying comments like "maintain the recognizable external features of the standard production automobile."

[DanDarcy]

Historically old "stock cars" have run in "P" Classes. We have had several V8 "stock cars" running in PA over the last several years. There is also a "mini stock" with a four cylinder motor which has run PC for many years. If I remember correctly, the discussion and following rules change last year was to try to clarify "true" race cars,like sports racers, that are not a representation of a production car."Stock cars" are a representation of a production car. A formula, sports racer , LMP and other such cars are representations of no production vehicles.If we are to consider the "stock car", "mini stock" , etc. as FP cars than we might as well do away with the "P" classes altogether. I feel the correct class for the Bush car , if a V8, is PA but you can run it in any higher class if you want to ,like FP. After all the FP class champion this year is a Miata . I would suggest that you use a 2 passenger car to get your license, than use the stock car. It will be much easier to learn and safer for you with an instructor in the car.Plus something with less horse power is easier to learn in. Fighter pilots don't learn to fly in a fighter, they learn in a lowly Cessna and work their way up to an F15. Track driving is totally different than autocross so it is best to have some one in the car to couch you as you drive. Please come and join us on the track and have FUN

[jlwhorf]

The most recent version of the SCCA GCR that I have is from 2008. "9.1.2. GT CATEGORY SPECIFICATIONS" says that tube frames are allowed in GT.

However, it goes on to list a large number of things that can or can't be done. If you look at the GCR in light of your own car, you can probably figure out whether it fits. There are some vague annoying comments like "maintain the recognizable external features of the standard production automobile."

If I remember correctly, Doug Valley's T-bird bodied, former Busch car ran in GT1. My car essentionally conforms to SCCA GT1 rules (wheel base, drivetrain, chassis, wheels etc.), eventhough, do not know what an SCCA scrutineer would say about my nasty looking body. Bill's car would probably conform to SCCA GTL rules.

[breakaway500]

"Mark, if you think the rules should be changed, then now is a good time to act on that.The next BOD meeting is coming up, and rule change proposals are still being discussed."

Thanks anyway,Nate. I don't believe in any classes. The fastest car/driver "wins" and so on down the line.Pretty simple way to score,but not popular.

No matter how the rules are written,there will always be room for interpretation by certain individuals.That's just the way it is!

[nateh]

Jonathan, thanks for the info - very helpful!

[jlwhorf]

Dave Foote's Taurus and Brian Formel's MonteCarlo would not be legal in GT1 because of their wheel bases. Dave ran his car regionally in SCCA SPO but could have run in GT1 with a T-Bird body (go figure). The is another SCCA class for stock cars, GTA, this is also a restricted class but is more tailored to nascar stock cars than GT1 to old TA cars. I don't think NER runs GTA, but is pretty popular out west and down south (wonder why) and I would think that GTA could be added as a PA special case. I believe that both Dave's and Brian's cars would conform.

[brucesallen]

Dave Foote's Taurus and Brian Formel's MonteCarlo would not be legal in GT1 because of their wheel bases. Dave ran his car regionally in SCCA SPO but could have run in GT1 with a T-Bird body (go figure). The is another SCCA class for stock cars, GTA, this is also a restricted class but is more tailored to nascar stock cars than GT1 to old TA cars. I don't think NER runs GTA, but is pretty popular out west and down south (wonder why) and I would think that GTA could be added as a PA special case. I believe that both Dave's and Brian's cars would conform.

Right on. Dave Foote's Busch North car is still the PA record holder at WGI (even though my 175 hp car beats it). PA was meant for V8 "stock" cars and we have had many over the years. BTW: GT1 cars can have equipment that is more radical than NASCAR stock cars.

[kfoote]

The above is correct.

My dad's Taurus, which originally began life as a NASCAR Busch North series purpose built road course car in the late 1990's ran in COM PA, and SCCA SPO. To be legal (though not competitive) in GT1, he would have had to change either the body or the wheelbase. Either are relatively easy to do, though he wasn't particularly motivated to do so.

[nateh]

It sounds as if there might be a difference then between the intent and the reality of the rules. As I read the above, David Foote's Taurus would be in FP if it came back. Whether Jonathan's would be PA or FP depends on an uncertain interpretation by an SCCA scrutineer.

How about Bill's car - is it legal for GTL?

Do we need to make another rule change?

[jlwhorf]

It sounds as if there might be a difference then between the intent and the reality of the rules. As I read the above, David Foote's Taurus would be in FP if it came back. Whether Jonathan's would be PA or FP depends on an uncertain interpretation by an SCCA scrutineer.

How about Bill's car - is it legal for GTL?

Do we need to make another rule change?

Sounds to me that we need to remove ambiguity to differentiate between formula cars and gt cars. and change the prepared rules to something like this.

FORMULA PREPARED
Any Formula Car (in the sense of an open-wheeled, single seat, open cockpit car) that is not otherwise classified.
Typical are the SCCA FA, FB, FC, FE, FF, FM, F500 Formula car classes.
Any Sports Racer (in the sense of a closed wheel, open cockpit car) that is not otherwise classified. Typical are the
SCCA ASR, CSR, DSR, ESR, S2000 classes.
Any Sports Prototype (in the sense of a closed wheel, closed cockpit car) that is not otherwise classified. Typical are
American Lemans or Grand Am P1, P2 and GTP.

PREPARED A (P/A)
Generally all GT cars with 8 or more cylinders or 6 cylinder forced induction cars prepared to Prepared rules


PREPARED B (P/B)
Generally all 5 and 6 cylinder normally aspirated and 4 cylinder forced induction GT cars prepared to Prepared rules


PREPARED C (P/C)
Generally all 4 cylinder GT cars prepared to Prepared rules
SCCA GT3, GTL, Formula Vee, FP, GP, HP, Sports Renault, Spec Racer Ford and Renault
Formula 440
Mazda 12A normally aspirated, MX3 1.8L 6-cyl
Mazda 13B normally aspirated

[TroyV]

djr71,

Please don't let this discussion discourage you from coming to an event and running what ya brung.

The important things are that you want to come and drive your machine with us, that you are safe in it, and that the car is in a very good state of prep and maintanence. The class it fits in really is of secondary concern to these.

We'll find a slot for you.