Questions

[djr71]

I am new here and am considering participating in a couple events next year.
I have been racing for over 20 years. I participated in autocross's at Otis AFB with the Cape Cod Sports Car Club and Quequechan. I have worked for multiple NASCAR teams in all series.
I have one of my Busch series cars and I would like to come to NHMS and The Glen.
My question is being a new driver to your events I was reading that I would need to have a car for two people so I could do a ride along with an instructor. Obviously my car only has one seat, is it possible to use a car or should I bring another car?
Also I have read the rule book a couple of times and it looks like I would be in prepared A (?) with the exception of making sure my car is safe and has up to date belts all I would need to do is add a rain light?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

[breakaway500]

Your car does not need to have two seats as COM can arrainge a lead/follow instructor setup till you are signed off for solo.. You will need working brake lights,though,even in Prepared A class. Prepared Formula is the only class exempt(rain light only). Most of the tracks we run at also have noise restrictions,so that is also a consideration with many "stock" cars. Belts will have to be up to date(2yrs on Sfi and 5 on FIA rated harnesses),and you will need window nets or arm restraints,plus a Snell 2005 or newer helmet,firesuit,shoes,gloves. I am sure you will have a ball in PA! Welcome to COM!

[nateh]

Do you have road course experience? If so, then a lead-follow will work fine.

If this is your first time at speed on a road course, then a ride-along situation might be a better way to start than a lead-follow - you'll pick up a lot from your conversations with your instructor. Maybe you could run your street car in the first event. Or have someone bring a street car that you can drive for a few sessions prior to going our there with the race car and have available in case there's a problem with the race car. (Never happens, I know...)

I'll bet that Busch car is a heck of a lot of fun. See you at the track!

[djr71]

The only road coarse exprience has been as a crew chief on a cup car at the Glen and a busch north car at Limerock. We did take turns running the team's minivan around the Glen before security stopped us!
I was re-reading the rules would I be in Prepared A or Formula Prepared?

Any Sports Prototype (in the sense of a closed wheel, closed cockpit car) that is not otherwise classified. Typical are
American Lemans or Grand Am P1, P2 and GTP.

I know in autocross events we could run any car as long as it passed tech. My only street car would be a pacifica as all my other vehicles are antiques and trucks. Is that good to run?

[breakaway500]

Technically..your Busch car would qualify for Prepared A (I'm assuming a V8,but if it is an older Busch car,it could be a V6,so that would be Prepared B class)...but people run "other" cars in Formula Prepared all the time,so you could run there as well.
I don't think you would enjoy your experience on track much in a Pacifica (no offense to Pacifica owners..)..but some antiques and "trucks" are fun on track! We have a club member who flies in an S10 Blazer!
Like Nate says..if it is your first time on a road track at speed,face to face instruction is the best.

[nateh]

I have to differ with Mark on this, I'm afraid. PA, PB, and PC are for cars that started life as street cars, with certain explicit exceptions. A Busch car is a dedicated race car, so it goes into FP.

[nateh]

Unless, of course, it satisfies SCCA GT1 or GT2 rules? Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with those classes to say. You might want to look into it.

[breakaway500]

Gee Nate..I thought a Monte Carlo/Lumina/Thunderbird/Taurus etc were street cars.Granted,a Cup/Busch car is highly modified...but basically is derrived from a "stock" street car design. Well...you're the Chief Steward,so whose to argue with you?

[nateh]

A "stock car" is a tube frame chassis with a silhouette body. It is not a modified version of a street car, and has nothing in common with the street car it's named after. It's much more like a GrandAm prototype, or a DTM or TransAm car.

And people argue with me all the time, as you certainly know!

I welcome discussions. It's how we make the club work better over time.

[breakaway500]

I guesss you don't frequent many "stock car" races,Nate. Most of them are just that,stock framed sedans,ex-street cars with roll/crash cages. NASCAR rules dictate a lot of changes for safety reasons..but basically,the car is a heavy,full bodied sedan.
Saying a 3600lb,full bodied "stock car" belongs in Formula class is laughable.
Historically, these "stock cars" have been classed in PA,PB and PC in COM....or have I missed something??? Bills Warrior runs in PC...and Johnathans "stock car" runs in PA. I guess I have missed some "new" rules changes...

[djr71]

Some stock cars like street stock's or late model's, depending on the track rules that they run, start out life as a street car.
A Nationwide Series, K&N Pro Series, or Cup car are either in house made chassis, some are bought from builders, and the bodies
are just rolled out sheetmetal. The only parts that resemble factory parts are the hood and trunk.
Hope I don't start trouble on my first post

[breakaway500]

Welcome to COM and rules interpretation. It's all done in the spirit to ensure fair competition...really!

[djr71]

After being in racing most of my life trust me I understand rule interpretation. I also understand the "gray area's" of rules

[nateh]

Mark, I over-generalized when I said "stock cars." You're right that I don't frequent ovals. However, I'm aware of the versions that start as street cars - and my observations don't apply to those.

It's true that some cars like this have run in PA etc in the past. Then we had the discussion last fall, which led me (after much discussion, since my original understanding was different) to understand the rules as expressed above. As a result, we clarified that section a bit for 2010. I don't think there's any ambiguity now, at least for the cars we're discussing at the moment.

So: The correct place for Jonathan's and Bill's cars is FP. But nobody has protested them, and they haven't been teched for records. There is a clause in the rules that would allow me to unilaterally reclassify them into FP, but it hasn't seemed worthwhile to me to exercise it. If their classmates are OK with running against them, then why should I rock the boat? But maybe it's time that I pointed this out to Jonathan and Bill, since it may have escaped their notice.

Actually, I've never exercised that clause I mentioned above. People tend to do the right thing anyway, once somebody points something out. Most rule infractions seem to be due to not reading the rules carefully enough.

[breakaway500]

"So: The correct place for Jonathan's and Bill's cars is FP."

Are you kidding me? That is your conclusion? Or,should I say..your ruling? Place all the stock cars into Formula Prepared??

Mask not one mistake with another comes to my mind...

How about this angle: Stock cars are replicas. Yes,replicas. They replicate cars that are street driven.

They are NOT derived from a race track only engineering design,like a Formula Atlantic, Formula Ford,Spec Ford racer, Can-Am cars.LMP prototypes...you know, the real FORMULA CLASS RACE cars.

Kit cars. The Shelby Cobras. The GT40's.Daytona coupes and so on.. Kit cars...the ones with tube chassis and silhouette bodies....

It could very well be argued that a Monte Carlo (etc) stock car is a kit car replica of an actual street car.

Replicas. Put a set of lights,mirrors,some glass and a horn on most any "stock car", and it could be street driven, on N.H. roads.

Yea..maybe the stock cars should run in the same class as the other replica cars. They are,after all, replicas...

Or...maybe you should move all the kit car replicas to Formula Prepared as well??

Yea,that's it! That's the logical answer!

Replicas that don't fit SP requirements should run in Prepared A,B or C..including stock car replicas as I see the rules written.But of course,my opinion is just that.