Gran Turismo 5

[cfossum]

This discussion reminds me of a situation at Lime Rock a few years ago. A licensed driver who had never been there before took me for a ride in his heavy but fast street car. After a few laps, I suggested that he might want to get into the habit of tapping the brakes a bit just before turning in for the uphill. He said “I’ve got thousands of laps logged here in GT (or iracing, or Forza, I don’t remember which it was) and I turn 1:02s and I don’t use brakes there.”
I told him good luck as I got out of the car. A few hours later he landed on his roof, just at the entrance to the uphill.
I suppose the newer versions are even more realistic, but to imagine it is like the real thing just blows my mind.

I was awesome at Asteroids in the 80's, but I laughed at PacMan and SpaceInvaders because they weren't realistic!
-Carl

[blindsidefive0]

This discussion reminds me of a situation at Lime Rock a few years ago. A licensed driver who had never been there before took me for a ride in his heavy but fast street car. After a few laps, I suggested that he might want to get into the habit of tapping the brakes a bit just before turning in for the uphill. He said “I’ve got thousands of laps logged here in GT (or iracing, or Forza, I don’t remember which it was) and I turn 1:02s and I don’t use brakes there.”
I told him good luck as I got out of the car. A few hours later he landed on his roof, just at the entrance to the uphill.
I suppose the newer versions are even more realistic, but to imagine it is like the real thing just blows my mind.

I was awesome at Asteroids in the 80's, but I laughed at PacMan and SpaceInvaders because they weren't realistic!
-Carl

LOL - it was probably iRacing. I've been running Mosport with the miatas in iRacing, and I don't hit the brakes going into T8 at the end of the 1 mile straight. HOWEVER, you can bet your ass I'll be braking quite a bit in my 325i when I show up in May.

The simulators can help you learn "where the track goes" and sometimes work out your line. However, you can't simulate the G's, varying track conditions, exact tire modeling, etc...and your life isn't on the line behind the computer screen.

[WillM]

He said “I’ve got thousands of laps logged here in GT (or iracing, or Forza, I don’t remember which it was) and I turn 1:02s and I don’t use brakes there.”
-Carl

"Neo, sooner or later you're going to realize, just as I did, that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

[Mick]

This discussion reminds me of a situation at Lime Rock a few years ago. A licensed driver who had never been there before took me for a ride in his heavy but fast street car. After a few laps, I suggested that he might want to get into the habit of tapping the brakes a bit just before turning in for the uphill. He said “I’ve got thousands of laps logged here in GT (or iracing, or Forza, I don’t remember which it was) and I turn 1:02s and I don’t use brakes there.”
I told him good luck as I got out of the car. A few hours later he landed on his roof, just at the entrance to the uphill.
I suppose the newer versions are even more realistic, but to imagine it is like the real thing just blows my mind.

I was awesome at Asteroids in the 80's, but I laughed at PacMan and SpaceInvaders because they weren't realistic!
-Carl

Too funny. ..well except for that bit about landing on his roof.
What I found has been the opposite. Racing sims seem to have no effect on my driving, but track experience has made me better at racing sims. People without track experience don't have a feel for, or appreciation of, weight management. That's just not something you can pick up from a racing sim. You have to experience it in the real world (or MeatSpace as the kids call it) to know how to use it to your advantage. Seems the more realistic the game physics the less fun it is to the layperson.

[TroyV]

It took all I could muster for guts to get through T8 in the throttle at Mosport in my Miata on Hoosiers. Most of the time I'd have to lift the throttle a little. Brakes are not required....in my car at least........but I'm barely around 100 up there.......after having taken a cat nap going up the back straight.

[blindsidefive0]

It took all I could muster for guts to get through T8 in the throttle at Mosport in my Miata on Hoosiers. Most of the time I'd have to lift the throttle a little. Brakes are not required....in my car at least........but I'm barely around 100 up there.......after having taken a cat nap going up the back straight.

3100lbs, 189hp, stock suspension...probably going to need some brakes.

I could never go through there flat out in iRacing, even w/ the miatas - I always needed a lift. I watched a video of a real life Star Mazda nearly flat out through there, it was nuts.

[Mario Fallas]

Ok guys, i can use some help here, obviously i don't know what i'm doing with iracing, i just can't find WG, Watkins G., NHMS nor Mosport
so far all i've done is qualified the miata @ laguna & did take the advice & practice @ LRP (1:01.9) for some reason video & sound stutter just about every time i was about to lay out a good lap & found myself entering big bend WAY HOT! among other places
FWIW, i'm liking i racing a bit more than GT5 (so far) i'm beginning to feel a bit more comfortable in the miatas & the almost no braking technique, wonder if i can do the same thing with my race car
Will, how do the pedals feel on your Porsche wheel set up & is it worth the $$? i'm thinking of getting one.
M

[blindsidefive0]

Ok guys, i can use some help here, obviously i don't know what i'm doing with iracing, i just can't find WG, Watkins G., NHMS nor Mosport
so far all i've done is qualified the miata @ laguna & did take the advice & practice @ LRP (1:01.9) for some reason video & sound stutter just about every time i was about to lay out a good lap & found myself entering big bend WAY HOT! among other places
FWIW, i'm liking i racing a bit more than GT5 (so far) i'm beginning to feel a bit more comfortable in the miatas & the almost no braking technique, wonder if i can do the same thing with my race car
Will, how do the pedals feel on your Porsche wheel set up & is it worth the $$? i'm thinking of getting one.
M

Sorry, forgot to mention - you will need to buy those tracks. Only like 8 tracks or so (including LRP and Laguna) come with the subscription. Other tracks require a 1-time payment before you can download them. Good tracks (Mosport, WGI) are about $15, and crappy tracks...er less popular tracks...like NHMS are $11 or $12.

I would probably get the Fanatec wheel over the Logitech, but I got my used G25 for just $110.

Regarding LRP with the miata in iRacing I don't subscribe to the no-brake philosophy all the time. If you drive too loose, your tires will wear out faster, and it's harder to be consistent. I usually just touch the brakes into the uphill, and then the right hander before the downhill. You can just lift into last downhill turn. Not sure if you are burying the throttle before turn-in into the esses, but doing so while keeping the tires relatively quiet is probably the fastest way to take time off your lap...although 1:01.x is pretty good given how new you are to iRacing.

[CP]

^^That's how we Miata people drive LRP in real life...using the brakes as little as possible. You can usually get away with just a lift at turn-in for the uphill and then some minor countersteer at the crest of the hill when the car jumps to the left. No lift for the downhill if the car can stick the corner but I usually breathe the throttle to about 40% just before turn-in, mat it as soon as I begin to turn the wheel and then catch the car most of the way through the corner. Does iRacing feature pad knockback like you get in real life on LRP's rumble strips?

[blindsidefive0]

^^That's how we Miata people drive LRP in real life...using the brakes as little as possible. You can usually get away with just a lift at turn-in for the uphill and then some minor countersteer at the crest of the hill when the car jumps to the left. No lift for the downhill if the car can stick the corner but I usually breathe the throttle to about 40% just before turn-in, mat it as soon as I begin to turn the wheel and then catch the car most of the way through the corner. Does iRacing feature pad knockback like you get in real life on LRP's rumble strips?

Revision - now that I think about it, I think it was with the Solstice that I needed to tap the brakes into the uphill, but the miata was just a good lift. At the bottom of the hill you really need a full lift to get the car to turn enough to make the corner. It could be different than your setup though - these are NC miatas, and your signature says you have an NB miata. I think that's another 30hp and 200lbs difference? Either way, it sounds pretty close.

I never noticed any empty brake travel going into T1, but I never really looked for it. Additionally, it's challenging to "feel" because while the wheel is force feedback, the brake pedal isn't.

What about Mosport (trying to learn the turns for May - I've never been in real life)? What do the miata drivers do (real life) in each of those turns? T1 I lift at turn in, and apex just past the end of the curbing. I lift again before the crest of corner 2 as I'm beginning to turn across the top, double apex (late on the last one), and go flying down the hill. Corner 3 I brake and trail them a good way into the corner, then flat on the gas. Corner 4 is buried, making sure not to stay too far right because the road drops off-camber. Brake up the hill into moss corner (I just shoot right for the first apex, no wide turn-in), but no brakes between the 2 apexes - I carry a bit of speed through the first apex and it rotates the car to point down the hill, then floor it. On the gas for 1 mile. Lift into T8, then maintenance throttle and work the car over for a super late apex. Trail the brakes into T9, again staying tight and don't track out. Finally drop a gear during the brief braking zone into the last turn, and I usually need a quick steering correction at the apex because it seems to "bump".

[WillM]

What about Mosport (trying to learn the turns for May - I've never been in real life)? What do the miata drivers do (real life) in each of those turns?

T1 I lift at turn in, and apex just past the end of the curbing.

Sounds about right. Full use of the track there, approaching very close to the wall and running over the curbing at the very late apex. If you have a Miata with better than average power to weight ratio, and you nailed the exit onto the front straight, lift earlier for turn-in to 1 or tap the brake (gasp!).

I lift again before the crest of corner 2 as I'm beginning to turn across the top, double apex (late on the last one), and go flying down the hill.

Again, sounds about right. Commit to the turn-in before cresting the hill. Takes a bit of faith. Don't let the car come out too far, but also don't fight the steering to make the turn tighter than it has to be. To me, it is one of those corners that feels right more than anything.

Corner 3 I brake and trail them a good way into the corner, then flat on the gas.

Approach from far left, stab the brake, turn in, squeeze the pedal until you are flat-out, which is before the apex. With my setup, the biggest challenge was initial grip at turn-in. Blow the turn-in and the car is going off. There does not feel like there is a lot of grip there, hence the stabbing of the brake to set the front end and scrub some speed. Once the front end bites, back on the gas and drift around the turn. The pavement is rough but grippy enough to hold the line if you get the turn in right. Flat out to the braking zone of T5.

Corner 4 is buried, making sure not to stay too far right because the road drops off-camber.

The big thing here is to maintain momentum. The approach is important. Exiting T4 to the far left, bring the car back across the track to the right. Begin to cross back over to the left before the bridge, and run under the right-most "C" (if I recall correctly) just before you crest the hill and start pointing downward. T4 is a late apex at the bottom of the hill. I'm quite OK with going a bit wide (to the right) at entry, but get the car to the left 1/2 of the track before mid-corner. By the time I'm upon the apex of T5, the car's trajectory has already decided the approach for T5. I take the inside line here. Some cars (high hp/heavy?) seem to prefer the rim shot. I for one, in my measly Miata at least, do not.

Brake up the hill into moss corner (I just shoot right for the first apex, no wide turn-in), but no brakes between the 2 apexes - I carry a bit of speed through the first apex and it rotates the car to point down the hill, then floor it.

Believe it or not, this is the fastest part of the track.
Entry speed into T5: 110MPH
Entry speed into T8: 109MPH
Brake hard up the hill, letting the car cross over the the far left edge of the track. I'm back on the throttle immediately and prefer a crisp lift between the two apexes to rotate the car, then right back on the gas. Car exits T5 to the far left (near/on the rumbles).

On the gas for 1 mile. Lift into T8, then maintenance throttle and work the car over for a super late apex. Trail the brakes into T9, again staying tight and don't track out. Finally drop a gear during the brief braking zone into the last turn, and I usually need a quick steering correction at the apex because it seems to "bump".

Either drop the gear between 8-9, 9-10, or not at all. Depending on your car/setup, one might work better than the others, or all might be about the same.

[WillM]

Which kind of looks like this:

[blindsidefive0]

Who else wants to be a professional driver...

GT Academy - basically a national Gran Turismo 5 competition where the winners will take part in a reality show to become a real race car driver.

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/2011/

The first round started today - it's 3 different time trials with different Nissans. I'm already signed up - 6th in the Northeast, and 31st in the US after my first runs tonight. Competition will obviously get tougher as this round runs a full 5 weeks.

[Mario Fallas]

thanks for the heads up, i just signed in!

[kfoote]

Who else wants to be a professional driver...

GT Academy - basically a national Gran Turismo 5 competition where the winners will take part in a reality show to become a real race car driver.

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/2011/

The first round started today - it's 3 different time trials with different Nissans. I'm already signed up - 6th in the Northeast, and 31st in the US after my first runs tonight. Competition will obviously get tougher as this round runs a full 5 weeks.

Just a little note on the entry requirements, that affects several people here, including me and Cy. If you have ever held an SCCA National license or higher, you are not eligible. The way I read it, if you have only held a regional license and not a National license, you're still eligible.