Ok, who is making changes in ST4?

[brucesallen]

Streetable is a relative term, everyone has a different opinion as what that means.

I support the flywheel/clutch swap in ST, it doesn't add any power, doesn't touch the engine, and is a popular bolt-on street mod.
ST class is supposed to be for the guy who wants to make their car a bit faster WITHOUT opening the engine. So that only leaves bolt-on mods. I really don't see a downside and it is impossible to police. if it were legal I would have one. But I don't want one bad enough to get bumped to SP, at least not yet.

a lightened flywheel/clutch can add greatly to acceleration. Less angular mass to spin up. Acts same as car weight.

[Grippy]

Bruce,
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.

[breakaway500]

It's ALL different in a 1k.lb. "go-cart". Less rotating mass means more Hp available to propel. If there is less to propel,all the better.

[jlwhorf]

Bruce,
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.

The level of effect would depend on how much lighter the flywheel or total weight of the clutch assembly is. I had a pretty noticable difference going from an iron flywheel to an aluminum flywheel, and then to a multi-disc. I agree that a flywheel that is 5 lbs lighter would not be that significant. But then again, without pulling the trans, how would you police it anyway?

[TroyV]

Getting back to Will,

Thanks for the history lesson. I was half joking to see what kind of response I'd get. This car has been an excercise in "don't mess with it too much". In fact, I set the dampers once two seasons ago, and I haven't changed them since. Those adjustment knobs could be rusted solid right now for all I know. Aside from normal wear items/consumables, I haven't changed a thing. I had Fastrack set the car up at the beginning of 2010, and it has been very consistent all year.

I snoop around the car to make sure everything is working, check the fluids, put gas in it, and then beat on the thing like a mule.

[Mark Swinehart]

Please make sure you put gas in it!

[brucesallen]

Bruce,
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.

It is true, my car originally came with a stock mazda 2.3 flywheel- maybe 22 lbs and almost two feet across. After many transmission problems due to no clutch shifting they changed the spec to a four pound 5 inch double disc racing clutch. So it all depends on how much the rotational inertia changes. Back when I modified my 86 RX7 the aluminum flywheel with all the weight at the center made a big difference too-- esp. in a 10,000 rpm bridge ported engine.

[Dtangard]

When will the club end up voting on the lightweight flywheel/upgraded clutch rule change? Again as many people have said, upgraded clutch/flywheels are nearly impossible to police (especially "streetable" clutch kits) and they are a common upgrade for street cars. I also don't think they will give a noticeable advantage over cars with oem clutches/flywheels besides making the car more fun to drive and more durable for track abuse. When it comes to keeping the class affordable, I don't think upgraded clutches or flywheels are out of the realm of competitors especially when people are doing 1.6 to 1.8 swaps, ecu upgrades and tunings, and differential swaps. This is a good debate though and I look forward to hearing the final decision.

[chaos4NH]

When will the club end up voting on the lightweight flywheel/upgraded clutch rule change? Again as many people have said, upgraded clutch/flywheels are nearly impossible to police (especially "streetable" clutch kits) and they are a common upgrade for street cars. I also don't think they will give a noticeable advantage over cars with oem clutches/flywheels besides making the car more fun to drive and more durable for track abuse. When it comes to keeping the class affordable, I don't think upgraded clutches or flywheels are out of the realm of competitors especially when people are doing 1.6 to 1.8 swaps, ecu upgrades and tunings, and differential swaps. This is a good debate though and I look forward to hearing the final decision.

Has anyone even submitted a Rules Change request? Any MEMBER can do that.

[paultg]

Jeff,

I support a clutch rule change and submitted one to include any flywheels. I figure if I'm going to upgrade the clutch why not do the flywheel as well.

-Derek

^He said he submitted one.

[jeffw]

Has anyone even submitted a Rules Change request? Any MEMBER can do that.

There are multiple rules changes submitted around clutches/flywheels.

[chaos4NH]

Has anyone even submitted a Rules Change request? Any MEMBER can do that.

There are multiple rules changes submitted around clutches/flywheels.

Thanks Jeff. Hope to see them at the Dec meeting.

[TroyV]

I figure I'll just throw it out there.....

If anyone is interested in my 1.6, feel free to PM me. It runs great, but uses some oil at high RPM. I was thinking about keeping the RB header, the CAS and some other trinkets, but on the other hand, I could leave the engine as a complete and running unit if someone wanted it. It will be available around February.

[TroyV]

....btw...I'm committed at this point.

If the BOD changes the swap rule..... I will be very VERY pissed.....and in SPC.

[blindsidefive0]

....btw...I'm committed at this point.

If the BOD changes the swap rule..... I will be very VERY pissed.....and in SPC.

Just curious (not really a miata guy), how much more whp can you expect from the 1.8 versus the 1.6 once you include all the legal Street Touring mods like exhaust, chip, whatever?