sunoco fuel

[breakaway500]

Can't be much more,because I have LOTS of stuff that runs fine on todays fuel,and I haven't done anything about the tuning. Hell,I have an old 1981 vintage Husqvarna 266 chainsaw that has cut more cords of wood than I care to guess..many hundreds..and I bought it used! It Outcuts my new Husky.Damn good ole saw.. That saw has had more 10% gas through it than...my own personal car,so if it were going to blow up,it would have happened about 10 years ago. I do use 93 in all my power equipment. You would think more would be said about the problem. Wonder what Allpower has to say about this? He works on this stuff every day.

[betelgeuse]

David,

I wish you would let us know what you found.
The fact is all gas sold retail at the pumps has ethanol in it. It has been that way for years.

Greg

[jlwhorf]

I hope Ma. doesn't go to E85. NH would never endorse that weasel piss!

This area does not have the corn production to warant E85. I did some research on E85 a year ago and racers are finding that it makes more power than leaded race fuel without having the oil dillusion issues that you get methanol. I seriously thought about trying E85 in the stock car because a conversion kit for the holley carb is quite simple. That idea was shot down when some big mouth submitted a rules change regarding methanol injection which got the com board up in arms about it, then passing a rule banning alcohol as fuel. Oh well at least I did not buy any parts. As far the guys racing 2 strokes in F500, most national guys run leaded race gas because that is the only fuel that is garanteed to pass the fuel tests, and they are tuned on the very edge of melt down. Some regional guys and autocrossers run pump gas with no problems. These motors are stock low compression engines, and with a conservative tune they last. Running race fuel in low compression engines actually lose power. Several years ago, there was an article in Hot Rod where a 10.5:1 engine was dyno'd with serveral different types of fuel, and 91 octane made more power that 100 octane leaded race fuel. I am not a fan of ethanol mix, but unfortuately if you don't want to spend a small fortune on race gas, this is pretty much what we have to work with.

[962porsche]

not all gas stations offer fuel with ethanol . there are two gas stations that are next door to my shop . one place does have 10% ethanol fuel the other place does not . and thou ethanol fuels have been around for some years every few gas stations offered it . in all my researching i found that there are only 45% of the gas stations offer it . as for the race fuels it was last year that it was added to all the sunocos unleaded race fuels . a 2 stroke motor does not need lead . so you can use leaded or unleaded fuel . i'm not going to write down all the findings it will take way to long for me to do that . but just some of the things are .1st there is phase separation . 2nd the measurable amount of water it absorbs just from humidity . 3rd it rapidly drops in its octane rating . 4th fuel milage ,on average about 2 miles less per gal. 5th the biggest cause of fuel injector failure . about 60% . 6th is not compatible with most rubber o-rings and fuel lines . i droped an old injector in the test fuels i have . the sunoco fuel made the o-rings on the injector twice the size and just fell off after 10 1/2 hours . the injector in the torco fuel still looks fine . 7 in a 2 stroke motor the ethanol brakes down the premix oils giving you about half the lubricating properties . a synthetic pre mix oil will help but is not a cure . i have over 80 things at this point that are not good about ethanol based fuels . and only one thing that is good about it . cost !!! its cheaper by about 30 cents a gal. becouse its so unstable some gas stations changed there octane ratings on there pumps one point (from 93 to 92 ). use it if you want to ! i'm just telling you what i have found .

[brucesallen]

I believe alcohol is much higher octane than gas. That is why indycars have used it. Lower energy content, tho. So I use 100 octane VP with 10% alcohol in my spec formula car- and adjust fuel pressure up a little.

[rousespointer]

I was using 93 octane non-ethanol gas that I found at two local gas stations in my home town. Unfortunately they both got notices that the distributor was not going to be supplying anything but 10% ethanol gas that all other stations use. One station is trying to find an alternate distributor but good luck with that, especially in Vermont. Normal (10% ethanol) gas runs fine in my car...I am just concerned about what the residue build up might be in my carb or fuel pump. I try to empty the carb bowls of fuel if not running the car for a long time.

[zchris]

As long as there has been Sunoco unleaded race fuel, seperation has been a problem. 10-12 years ago at the Pocono SCCA national, it was all that was available. And it was prior to ethanol. It seperated worse in the clear plastic jugs due to sunlight we were told. Used it that one time and now make sure of whats available before I leave home.
Chris H

[962porsche]

ethanol fuels only have a higher octane rating untill it comes in contack with air then there is a very big drop in its ratting .some tests state up to 6 points but the average is about 2 points . that its just one of many reasons why it should not be put into cars with plastic fuel tanks or plastic fuel cans . i talked with a rep from mazda cars N.A. i was told that there cars for the N.A. market are not set up for ethanol fuels at this time . porsche of N.A. told me almost the same thing and try not to use it in your car . volvo said that you can use it as long as there is not more than 15% ethanol blended fuel . if its more than that they can make changes to the fuel systom and remap the computer . from some of the reports i have read of the tests that were done they have found up to 16% ethanol in the fuels . that would be from summer blends to winter blended fuels . yes it would get some separation . but it now is getting that they call phase separation . its getting 3 to 4 layers of separation . that all depends on which line of fuel you are using . the higher the octane the more layers of separations there seams to be like with the 260gt plus fuel . the old 2 layer separations could get remixed by shaking the fuel can as long as it did not sit for to long . this is not the case now . in one of my tests i put the sunoco fuel on the paint shaker and it did not remix.

[DanDarcy]

As a power sport, marine and power equipment dealer for almost 40 years the problem with 10% ethanol fuel is water absorption. The second biggest problem is older two cycle outboard motors which had built up a layer of carbon on the piston crown. When you use the ethanol fuel, it has a cleaning effect which causes this carbon to come loose and sticks the rings, scoring the cylinder wall.These engine run cooler than a chain saw or motorcycle and therefor build up more carbon deposits. Most motors made since 1995 will take 10 % ethanol , 5% methanol without a problem. John Deere, in a service bulletin , stated that using the 10% ethanol will not damage any of their engines back to 1934 and you are more likely to damage it from being out of tune than from ethanol. The new fuels, with their clean burn additives, are not as stable as the old fuels, and should be used as soon as possible. For a 2 cycle, mix only as much as you need for a week.Also remember that each time you transfer fuel you lose some octane, and the smaller the amount of fuel, the quicker it goes bad. The ethanol also acts as a cleaner and will loosen up scale and deposits in an old fuel system. The grain and corn industry wants the government to specify 20%-25% ethanol in future gas mixes. None of the current fuel systems in my products will run for long on this high of alcohol without problems. Until then don't worry about the fuel mix, just use fresh fuel ---so go out and drive more and faster

[962porsche]

i have read over 50 reports up to now . most of what dan stated is what i have found . not olny does it lossen deposits . but becouse ethanol is highly acidotic it eats into all metals cutting the fuel systoms life in half as stated in more than 40 of the reports . i have an email from a major motorcycle co. that states your two cycle engines have a special problem with ethanol blended fuels . 2 cycle engines function becouse the oil added to the fuel bonds to the engines metal surfaces and provides barrier lubriction to all parts requiring lubrication . when ethanol (in any amount ) is added to hydrocarbon burning fuels it displaces the oil and forms a primary bond with the metal surfaces . this bond provides virtually no lubrication .the email goes on but you get the point ? what even 5% ethanol does to any motor with nikasil coated cylinder walls .well is not good ! a top power tool co. sent me an email stating almost the same thing . the shelf life is just hours with ethanol blended fuels not days or even weeks . within a 6 hour window it will start to get phase separation . for any one tells you just to run it ??A- no ! in most street cars you can use it but your routine maintenance will go way up . over the winter i had water in the fuel tank of my delsol and the car would not start . i drained the tank blow out the fuel lines and changed the fuel filter . 2 weeks before the trenblant race the same thing . i was blaming the gas station where i always get gas for that car becouse the gas there is cheap . now i'm thinking its phase separation . becouse i have some many cars to drive i only drive the delsol about 6 miles a week . so when i fill the tank it lasts for a good 6 months . i have only put gas in the car 2 times from the last time i had water in it .

[breakaway500]

It's a conspiracy!

[brucesallen]

Alcohol adsorbs (not absorb) water. This means there will be no separated water in your tank. Dry Gas is alcohol.

[962porsche]

no ! there are many deferent kinds of alcohols . you would be thinking of isopropyl alcohol . thats is what dry gas is made of . out of the 3 isopropyl alcohols that i know of (70, 91 and 99 ) iscoproyl 91 is used in most all dry gases . it will only remove very small trace amounts of water . the 2 times i drained the tank on my car i had abour a 1/4 cup of water . is alcohol hygroscopic ( water absorbing ) yes ! but there is good and bad about that . if you just want to remove the little water in your tank then put dry gas in it to do so . but when you add 10% alcohol when there is no water in the plastic fuel tank to start with and then you add in humidity (the condensation in the air) the alcohol (in this case ethanol) in the fuel tank acts like a sponge .

[breakaway500]

If you bought a Tesla you would not have to worry about fuel any more. Just that long damn extension cord..

[Stynger]

If you bought a Tesla you would not have to worry about fuel any more. Just that long damn extension cord..

What class would that be in?

Is it even legal?