removing cones on 2nd day

[subsonic]

What are everyone's thoughts on not having cones put at turnin, apex and track out on 2nd day? Nobody relies on the cones...so lets get rid of them on the second day. Just make it clear to everyone that the cones will not be there on second day and everyone will be fine....

[MiataSteve]

Even if it is just turn 3. This would cut down on debris flag.

[WillM]

If the cones were not being used, they would not be out on day 1 or day 2.

Since the cones are being used, they will most certainly be out on both days.

There are many students who are signed off to solo for day 2. There are likely to be many licensed drivers who "use" the cones.

Why do you want the turn-in, apex, and track-out cones removed?

[cfossum]

I'll admit that I use the cones, not necessarily for absolute position but certainly as a reference. Additionally, I thought the cones at Monticello were particularly well placed.
-Carl

[breakaway500]

^I'll second what Carl said.

If people are worried about the cones getting kicked onto the track,maybe the cones could be placed an extra foot off the track?

[John F]

I use them for reference also, but the apex of 3 is sometimes put on the rumble strip and I usually try to stradle it. An extra foot or to in on the placement would be nice.

[subsonic]

Why do you want the turn-in, apex, and track-out cones removed?

One perspective is: "Cones are like 'training wheels'... ". So on the second day, instructors remove the training wheels.

[breakaway500]

Another perspective;
Just because you know the route to work, and back home again, does not mean the road signs are not needed.
Ignore the cones the same way you ignore the signs...

[jeffw]

I use them for reference also, but the apex of 3 is sometimes put on the rumble strip and I usually try to stradle it. An extra foot or to in on the placement would be nice.

The cone is usually out further if the bikes were there before.

The corner workers will generally move the turn 3 cone back if you ask, since they realize that our line goes over the turtles.

-jeff

[DanDarcy]

With the Mustang, I just hit the cones out of the way. Not sure if I'll do that with the Lotus ---- might total it

[Shawn624]

I like having as many references as possible. Cones included. What's the harm?

[962porsche]

+1 will and carl !!!!!!

[subsonic]

The position so far is: "they are there, so what is the harm in using them". "they are (very convenient) reference points".
Is there a position that states: "what harm is there in removing them". To which some would reply "too much trouble, they are there so why bother". Ot, "It removes a (very conventient) reference point"...

Literature out there states:

"At racing schools, a series of cones are placed around the track to teach students the ideal racing line. By connecting the dots between these cones, you will find the quickest way around the track."

"Note: While most SCCA race courses will have brake markers, few tracks will have turn-in cones, apex cones or track-out cones. You are expected to find these points for yourself...."

The second day at a COM event is not a racing school. So in principle, the track could not have the cones and this is what I am advocating.

As to the harm, there really is none (other than being a crutch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crutch). I only really start to enjoy driving a track when using my eyes and feeling the track...not the cones.

[cfossum]

I see and understand the point entirely. True racers don't rely on cones, so those of us who are true racers would have an even greater advantage over those who rely on cones. And I almost agree, that an otherwise handicapped participant may be partially competitive when allowed the use of a crutch, such as cones. But really, why care? There are those who think we should also disallow the use of all crutches like antilock brakes, stability control, automatic transmissions, and all wheel drive. It may be nearly impossible to ignore the cones, but probably just as impossible to convince everyone to eliminate them the second day.
-Carl

[cuda6666]

I think we should replace the cones with sturdy trees.