Classing SP and P cars

[mr2sc]

Ahhh...I wonder what they could have done to get themselves pushed up to SPA for so many years?
I guess the current SPB crop is deemed fast enough to fend them off

[WillM]

Sorry to be so late on this. I haven't been keeping up with the forums for a while.

In any event, I'm a big fan of the points-based system and have stated so for a while. I've even posted about it on these forums plenty of times. Unfortunately, I just do not have the time needed to really pull it together.

Pete - as Mick said, your proposal last year seemed to go over poorly, it was only due to the timing. Our rules meetings are the longest of the year and can get a bit tedious. I tried to rally a few people to look into a points-based classification system for COM, and it went nowhere.

From the options I've considered, I think it would make most sense to keep the SS and P classification groups as they are. ST and SP classes would be consolidated into a single points-based classification group. Instead of 5 ST classes and 3 SP classes, there would be 6-8 "points" classes.

This would allow stock cars to run in stock classes and any car that would not fit in the points-based classes could run in one of the P classes.

Any big change would take months to figure out and discuss, and we would owe our membership at least a full off-season to prepare. In other words, start talking and planning it out now to put into effect for the 2011 season.

[horizenjob]

Would you need so many classes if you were points based? Eight seems like a lot. The points should allow you to better fit your group...

[mr2sc]

not that I want to re-open this, but as I slave away in the garage and threaten/plead with parts suppliers to be able to somehow make it to Monticello with the COM boys....I can't help but notice that now, even a 300hp, flyweight Ariel Atom (aka formula car with a passenger seat which is somehow licensable to be driven on public roads in limited jursidictions where it has slipped under their radar) has also been lumped into SPB?

Sorry...I'm not a regular here, and clearly don't do this for any great prize with COM because of the whole SP class structure situation...solely for the seat time and cuz y'all are truly a great bunch, but WTF? Is this for real, or a joke?

I'm more than happy to concede to getting a ass whupping by great drivers like Dan B, or cars that are even remotely similar (although I still maintain that all the e-nannies should be lumped into their own special X-box class), but this is a bit over the top...even for SPB...n'est pas? Sheesh!

Oh yeah...and I also see how roll bars are no longer required in SP. I'm sure that was one heck of a debate, but wow! This sure doesn't seem too clever to me. Instead, I'd encourage the guys with leased cars stay in some another class, instead of worrying about putting holes through cars that need to be returned eventually. So, did this send a message to everyone in SPB to strip out a couple hundred pounds?

[betelgeuse]

not that I want to re-open this, but as I slave away in the garage and threaten/plead with parts suppliers to be able to somehow make it to Monticello with the COM boys....I can't help but notice that now, even a 300hp, flyweight Ariel Atom (aka formula car with a passenger seat which is somehow licensable to be driven on public roads in limited jursidictions where it has slipped under their radar) has also been lumped into SPB.

I couldn't agree with you more.

See COM talk; BMW White Mountain chapter says no to Ariel Atom. (If you don't want to read the whole thing start on page 5.)
Also see COM talk; VERY FAST?


Greg

[breakaway500]

[eastcoastbumps]

I'm nearly finished building my S2000 to the SPC rules. I've changed my stance on this. The rules are fine.

Good luck to everyone else this year.

/sarcasm

[eastcoastbumps]

Tommy, have you considered turning your MR2 into a kit car? That way you wouldn't be confined to most of the SP rules that would require you to use stock fenders or silhouette, suspension mounting points, maintaining the stock frame and subframes, engine location, or number of cylinders the MR2 originally came equipped with.

Just a thought.

[WillM]

Hi Tommy,

Good to hear from you and learn than you plan to attend Monticello! I know exactly where you are coming from. You are probably not aware, but your question is likely to strike a nerve which has been beat to death recently. There are several threads on the forum with endless debate about the Atom, and the most vocal Atom owner is the guy who posted the tissue box reply above. From that single post, it would seem to me that the discussion (argument?) is waning.

That said, I still believe that the SP classes should should move to a points system.

I also believe that an Atom is much closer to a formula car than it is to any of the cars classed in SP.

[John F]

Tommy, have you considered turning your MR2 into a kit car? That way you wouldn't be confined to most of the SP rules that would require you to use stock fenders or silhouette, suspension mounting points, maintaining the stock frame and subframes, engine location, or number of cylinders the MR2 originally came equipped with.

Just a thought.

That's not true Pete. Kit cars can only be in SP or P. "Kit cars and replicars are allowed in SP if they meet the rules otherwise specified."

[mr2sc]

Hey Guys,

Pete...re kit cars, if I wanted one, I'd have been lured into a FFR Cobra (or similar) long ago (a Beck is also very appealing). I love em, but not solely for the purpose of doing T/T’s with COM frankly.
We have a point based system here in Canada that works well, and frankly, after flogging this car for 23yrs now, I've gotten very attached to its quirks. It still makes me smile.

Will, thanks...I'm trying very hard to attend, but realistically, can only know for sure a couple days before the event (hopefully not to late to register). And even then, it will be a with a new setup, so I'm just hoping to get some track time to develop, rather than fiddling in the paddock.
So...I'm definitely not in it to vie for a prize, but was just taken a aback when I noticed where SPB has further slid to with this latest classification (or the roll bar rule)

Anyway, I hope I can get things together in time and join in the fun.

cheers
Tommy

PS I see Frank Flanagan is up against a Noble M400 with his Mini-Cooper in SSB…I presume that one is just a temporary misclassification

[eastcoastbumps]

Tommy, have you considered turning your MR2 into a kit car? That way you wouldn't be confined to most of the SP rules that would require you to use stock fenders or silhouette, suspension mounting points, maintaining the stock frame and subframes, engine location, or number of cylinders the MR2 originally came equipped with.

Just a thought.

That's not true Pete. Kit cars can only be in SP or P. "Kit cars and replicars are allowed in SP if they meet the rules otherwise specified."

Sorry, but what's not true? I suggested he build a kit car from his MR2 and continue to run it in SPB. In theory, if built correctly, a kit car based off the running gear of an MR2 should be faster than his current MR2 and completely legal even if the 'kit car' has a custom frame, suspension mounting points etc.

What does it take to get a kit car bumped from SP to P? It seems as though you can do anything you want to your kit car and stay legal in SP as long as it has headlights and two seats.

[breakaway500]

"What does it take to get a kit car bumped from SP to P?"

No windshield would be one. No fenders would be another.Anything that alters it to the point where it is not street legal ..at least in NH. Altered fenders? Probably..

I am very flattered to have my Atom constantly accused of being a Formula car. I have modified it to some high standards. In stock form,with stock wheels/DOT tires etc...they are not as fast as everyone thinks. Ask me how I know...

[eastcoastbumps]

"What does it take to get a kit car bumped from SP to P?"

No windshield would be one. No fenders would be another.Anything that alters it to the point where it is not street legal ..at least in NH. Altered fenders? Probably..

Right, just about half the rules that apply to production cars.

[John F]

Pete, you were stating that Tommy would have no restrictions if he made a kit car. Tommy's MR2 is not restricted to anything in SPB except lights and windshield, same as my kit Cobra. And, yes, if I wanted to go to PA because there are less cars entered, all I could do it with no changes or take off the windshield. If I don't use a windshield I am forced into PA