BMW White Mountain says no Atom,no solo.

[jlwhorf]

"Atoms and Miatas are also lucky to have Boston BMW to run with".

Boston BMW have not confirmed Atoms for their events.I am waiting for the good word...

Honestly Mark, I feel you would have more fun at a BMW club event if you take your miata. I took my stock car to a couple of WMC events and it is like taking a gun to a pillow fight. I had people whine to me about closing rates (yes jeffw you where one of them). Granted I had lots of track time, but in the end, I had tons more fun when I ran with them with my Trans Am.

[breakaway500]

Thanks for the heads up,Jonathan.I will be trying to get as much seat time in the Atom as possible this year,which will depend on the weather as well.

[jeffw]

"Atoms and Miatas are also lucky to have Boston BMW to run with".

Boston BMW have not confirmed Atoms for their events.I am waiting for the good word...

I had people whine to me about closing rates (yes jeffw you where one of them). Granted I had lots of track time, but in the end, I had tons more fun when I ran with them with my Trans Am.

I resemble that remark. But it would have been good if you'd also mentioned the corner pointbys I gave you too

[jlwhorf]

"Atoms and Miatas are also lucky to have Boston BMW to run with".

Boston BMW have not confirmed Atoms for their events.I am waiting for the good word...

I had people whine to me about closing rates (yes jeffw you where one of them). Granted I had lots of track time, but in the end, I had tons more fun when I ran with them with my Trans Am.

I resemble that remark. But it would have been good if you'd also mentioned the corner pointbys I gave you too

Don't worry Jeff its cool. I know I caught you by surprise, but I did lift for you too. In a COM event, I would not have lifted at that point on the front straight. I thought I was easy on you guys that event, but at the end of day Dick Cadieux came sniveling to me telling me that people where complaining that I was running them too hard. That's why I was warning Mark

[breakaway500]

In all honesty,the last event with the Atom at NHMS,I was out with the SS cars and it was fine.They did not have to lift and I could pass off line no problem! As long as they saw me coming for the point by,I didn't even have to lift.It was like an LMP1 car out with the GT cars....

[6PAK72]

What ever happened to the concept that if you're getting caught, you're slower and owe the pass? Every rule book and training I've been exposed to says the same thing - if you're being overtaken, you may have a faster car, but you're not the faster driver...lift.

[breakaway500]

Non sequitur.

[CalypsoBean]

"Atoms and Miatas are also lucky to have Boston BMW to run with".

Boston BMW have not confirmed Atoms for their events.I am waiting for the good word...

Honestly Mark, I feel you would have more fun at a BMW club event if you take your miata. I took my stock car to a couple of WMC events and it is like taking a gun to a pillow fight. I had people whine to me about closing rates (yes jeffw you where one of them). Granted I had lots of track time, but in the end, I had tons more fun when I ran with them with my Trans Am.

why do people in this thread insist on continually comparing the White Mountain Chapter to the Boston Chapter?

[breakaway500]

Yes,they are different clubs.And yes,they do have different track policies for vehicles.But,I did start the thread discussing WMC,so that is probably the reason both clubs are getting tangled up.(and no,it's not fair). I am still waiting for clairification about the Atom with Boston BMW.They wanted pictures of my car..

[chaos4NH]

"Atoms and Miatas are also lucky to have Boston BMW to run with".

Boston BMW have not confirmed Atoms for their events.I am waiting for the good word...

Honestly Mark, I feel you would have more fun at a BMW club event if you take your miata. I took my stock car to a couple of WMC events and it is like taking a gun to a pillow fight. I had people whine to me about closing rates (yes jeffw you where one of them). Granted I had lots of track time, but in the end, I had tons more fun when I ran with them with my Trans Am.

why do people in this thread insist on continually comparing the White Mountain Chapter to the Boston Chapter?

Maybe be cause their policies are so different people can't figure out whether they can run in which chapter with their COM legal cars? Boston seems to be the oddball out (that is not meant in a harmful sense) because White Mountain and Patroon chapters require full roll cages in all convertibles, while Boston does not (which is a thumbs up for Boston).

[6PAK72]

Gang,

This morning, the Chief Steward of BMW WMC quite nicely and thoroughly explained the open-car rule as it stands for this season, and how it came about.

To whit:

In a national Stewards meeting on October, chapters were told by the insurance carrier of BMW that convertibles were to be managed under 1993 crash specifications. Any Steward signing off on a convertible that did not meet same could be help PERSONALLY liable for approving the car - and this liability included any OTHER safety deviations: out of date harnesses and helmets, etc.

The 1993 limitations are such that a Miata with a bolted-in-place hard top AND SFI rollbar as approved for COM is NOT approved for any BMW chapter.

My Miata was REJECTED for ANY and ALL classes, for not having a COMPLETE CAGE.

Any other published, word-of-mouth, or otherwise learned information is being rejected by the Chief Steward and Tech at the site.

In passing, the Steward mentioned that other open cars without complete cages would be rejected as well, without specifying car model.

[chaos4NH]

Jeff,
That is precisely what he told me when I discussed the matter with him on April 3, except he told me 1995 safety standards. He added that he felt all the other BMW Chapters would follow suit, and, indeed Patroon BMW from the Albany, NY area, also prohibits convertibles without full cages. Now, can someone tell us what the safety standards say??

[breakaway500]

It is almost like they are expecting us to put the thing on the roof.
I HATE insurance companies. Yes,I know..a necessary evil. All I can say is don't let then dictate safety policies. We will all be sitting around on our hands shortly...
Like Sam says..whose 1995 safety standards? NHTSA? DOT? BATF? ( )

Here is a link to the NHTSA 1995 rollover standards....http://www.iihs.org/laws/comments/pdf/n ... 111805.pdf

A paragraph toward the end...

"The importance of vehicle roofs in preventing occupant injuries in
rollover crashes is illustrated by the relative risks of serious and
fatal injuries for drivers in vehicles with and without roofs. The
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety identified 55 pairs of
convertible/hardtop vehicle models. Comparing the percentages of
deaths of belted drivers in rollovers, Institute researchers estimated
the fatality risk in rollovers for drivers of vehicles with roofs
relative to drivers of vehicles without roofs. A 95 percent
confidence interval was calculated for the estimate of relative risk."

And so on and so forth...

So,why did the NHTSA allow convertibles to be sold after 1995 if they adopted these standards? Because,I believe the NHTSA never did adopt those standards.
However,the Insurance company IS trying to enforce those old test standards..which basically would eliminate convertibles from "coverage".


Insurance companies should be basing coverage on actual RISK to event participants on track in convertible/topless cars..like the SCCA..not some highway test standard that they proposed...25 years ago...

Damn good thing all insurance carriers don't use this standard.

[timmmy]

FYI I was at a WMC BMW event today and asked the question again. Straight answer was 'Convertibles or cars with no roof must have full cage and roof.' then I said " Boston BMW seem to be more flexible" Answer was a definitive "All BMW chapters play by the same safety rules, Full cage and roof"

[chaos4NH]

FYI I was at a WMC BMW event today and asked the question again. Straight answer was 'Convertibles or cars with no roof must have full cage and roof.' then I said " Boston BMW seem to be more flexible" Answer was a definitive "All BMW chapters play by the same safety rules, Full cage and roof"

SIGH...............