BMW White Mountain says no Atom,no solo.

[Tim Mahoney]

Really? The BMW broomstick rule is 2" helmet clearance with a broomstick running from the top of the roll bar to the BASE of the windshield frame. Even with my racing seat bolted to the floor, with the blisters cut off, I don't stand a chance with that standard. I think it's impossible if you can see over the dash. Who did the evaluation, JM?

[breakaway500]

To the base of the windshield? That is 100% unreasonable. Maybe BMW should stop building all those "unsafe" convertibles? Talk about having double standards.

[boltonite]

Try welding or bolting something to raise the top of the bar, learn to slouch, or have me take your car thru tech.
For those with too much free time: BMWCCA Rules

[breakaway500]

MUCH easier to just avoid BMW events,if they are going to be so critical.
Even if my Miata passed their base of w/s stick test (which it won't) I still don't have a full cage in the car.
I just pass the broomstick test now with the highest roolbar (I can fit under my ragtop), a helmeted head,and my skimpy padded ultrashield seat bolted directly to the floor.,using the NORMAL top of windshield to rollbar broomstick test.NFW will I pass their testing procedure. I would imagine most verts won't pass, being driven by anyone over 6 feet in height,unless you install a super sky high bar...like that old Vette that attended one of COM's fall events.

[CalypsoBean]

Really? The BMW broomstick rule is 2" helmet clearance with a broomstick running from the top of the roll bar to the BASE of the windshield frame. Even with my racing seat bolted to the floor, with the blisters cut off, I don't stand a chance with that standard. I think it's impossible if you can see over the dash. Who did the evaluation, JM?

They did not use the base of the windshield. My evaluation was done by Luka Serdar. The top of the windshield is what the club used. Last year was when the 'base of the windshield' suggestion was made at the national club level, but it was not adopted by each chapter. I stress again: each chapter adopts their own safety standards and insurance for their events. White Mountain chooses not to allow convertibles, so they don't get my participation or dollars at the track. Boston allows convertibles, and so they get my dollars and participation.

The White Mountain chapter and the Boston chapter are different. I don;t understand why you say it is impossible when I have driven my Miata at BMW events at NHIS within the past year. I consulted with the club prior to installing my safety equipment to make sure that I would pass and be able to run with this club.

I am not the only convertible that runs with Boston BMWCCA. A full cage is not needed. The rules for open cars are clearly listed on the Boston BMWCCA website:

http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/EventDescr ... hools.aspx

Convertibles
Rules for CONVERTIBLES are as follows:

Definition for Convertibles and Cars with Removable Roof Sections
‘Convertibles’ are defined as cars with retractable tops, whether soft-top or folding hard-top.
‘Removable roof sections’ include targa tops and T-tops. These are characterized by part of a fixed body structure above the passenger compartment.

Participation Requirements - Convertibles
Convertibles are not allowed to participate in sessions driven at speed unless the car is equipped with the following minimum requirements:

* An approved roll bar or roll cage. Both driver and instructor sitting up right with helmets are below the top of the roll bar.
* Five (5) or Six(6) point harnesses for both driver and instructor where belts are properly routed.
* Arm Restraints

Participation Requirements - Removable Roof Sections
Cars with removable roof sections are allowed provided that both driver and instructor sitting up right with helmets are below the top of the roll bar or roof line.

Exclusions - Cars equipped only with factory pop-up posts or similarly activated rollover protection are not allowed.

Approval for Event
ALL convertibles must be approved by the Event Chair in advance. Please contact the registrar before the event to discuss your configuration. If the vehicle does not pass the on-site Tech Inspection with regard to the rules above, you will not be allowed to participate and no refund will be given. If you have an open convertible with an approved roll bar and we are not able to find an instructor who is willing to accompany you on the track, your entry fee will be refunded.

[breakaway500]

Does the Boston chapter require COM licensed drivers to drive with an instructor first to be signed off? Not that I mind an instructor at all,it's just that I don't have the passenger side set up with a race seat and harness.

[timmmy]

Interesting as they wont let me run wiht my hoop, race seats and 6 points even on my own as an instructor..... How long ago did you run? as these regs are fairly new, within 2 years.

I'm not using a hoop - I have a Hard Dog hardcore bar, double diagonal. I know a lot of clubs would not consider a hoop to be a roll bar.

I ran with them last summer in July. No one in the club has given me any indication that this year would be any different. White Mountain will NOT let me run, but Boston will. I had my car inspected by the HPDE coordinator prior to registering for the event. That is their convertible policy - you have to be cleared in advance to pass the broomstick and all that good stuff.

I have the same Hard Dog Bar, my bad, anything that isn't a full cage I call a hoop.

[CalypsoBean]

Interesting as they wont let me run wiht my hoop, race seats and 6 points even on my own as an instructor..... How long ago did you run? as these regs are fairly new, within 2 years.

I'm not using a hoop - I have a Hard Dog hardcore bar, double diagonal. I know a lot of clubs would not consider a hoop to be a roll bar.

I ran with them last summer in July. No one in the club has given me any indication that this year would be any different. White Mountain will NOT let me run, but Boston will. I had my car inspected by the HPDE coordinator prior to registering for the event. That is their convertible policy - you have to be cleared in advance to pass the broomstick and all that good stuff.

I have the same Hard Dog Bar, my bad, anything that isn't a full cage I call a hoop.

hey no problem - thought you were talking about those double hoops that i see from time to time in miatas.

[CalypsoBean]

Does the Boston chapter require COM licensed drivers to drive with an instructor first to be signed off? Not that I mind an instructor at all,it's just that I don't have the passenger side set up with a race seat and harness.

that i do not know - I am not COM licensed yet. I do know that it takes longer to go solo with BMW than some other clubs, from talking to people who have gone through the process.

[Stynger]

Does the Boston chapter require COM licensed drivers to drive with an instructor first to be signed off? Not that I mind an instructor at all,it's just that I don't have the passenger side set up with a race seat and harness.

Everyone is supposed to ride with an instructor in their first session (it's an HPDE ). You wait on pitlane for an instructor to show up, hopefully before the session is over. BTDT.

[breakaway500]

and...everyone is supposed to drive less than the speed limit. Just another reason to look elsewhere for track time, in my eyes. There are rules..and then there are restrictions..

I wouldn't wait on pit lane for my GUARDIAN ANGEL for more than ....3 minutes. COM has sure spoiled me!

[CalypsoBean]

and...everyone is supposed to drive less than the speed limit. Just another reason to look elsewhere for track time, in my eyes. There are rules..and then there are restrictions..

I wouldn't wait on pit lane for my GUARDIAN ANGEL for more than ....3 minutes. COM has sure spoiled me!

less that the speed limit? wait for an instructor on pit lane? i don't understand what you guys are saying...have any of you actually done an HPDE with BMWCCA Boston? It's as smoothly run and professional as any COM HPDE. In fact, in my opinion the only difference is the lack of time trials.

[breakaway500]

With the speed limit comment,I was trying to say rules are to be enforced with some...personal interpretation. We all know you are not supposed to speed on public roads..but most everyone does to an extent. BMW says everyone needs to have a ride along before solo,including competition licensed drivers. I say they are being overly cautious. Maybe it's by "the rules as written" policy,but I see it as a deal breaker if enforced to the letter of those rules.. Besides,I have already written them off my "to attend' list. If they won't accept the Atom,they get none of my business! Plenty of other clubs that need attendees!

[CalypsoBean]

i suppose that's one way to look at it. i choose to respect the rules other clubs make with regards to their insurance and risk policies. I am happy that BMW Boston allows convertibles, even though BMW White Mountain does not. COM is fun for me BMW is fun for me. Maybe other clubs would be fun too, but I do have to keep in mind my budget for the summer, so those two clubs offer me enough events to keep me busy all season

[breakaway500]

What can I say...I'm not big on biased rules,regulations and restrictions. Respect is something that is earned,not dictated. Next thing you know,they WILL have speed limits at HPDE outings...unless people vote with their feet. I'd rather walk than attend another BMW event at this point.