bmw people's input please

[962porsche]

i have been emailing with this guy Jay over in england about the 850 he races in the (RAC ? ) there scca . i have got so much info from him on car set up and parts to use . if i were to build this car for the track i would build it to spa rules . after scaling the car the power to weight comes out to be 1HP to 9.9 LBS . which is not all that bad for a stock bodyed car . but at this time i still don't know what i'm going to do . i also am looking for a porsche 968 to run in spc or st4 .

[breakaway500]

Dave,How much did the 850 weigh as is?Just wondering...I still thinks it's not a good idea..to track rat it..

I had never heard of a 968 so I googled it...nice car!


"The 968's 3.0 liter engine outputs 240 horsepower, making it the world's most powerful normally aspirated 4 cylinder production automobile." Sounds encouraging...

240hp and 3k lbs is more like it for a track car.


Comes in a roadster version too.



Watched a wonderful Paul Newman flick last night; "Somebody up there likes me". Basically a Rocky Graziano (middleweight boxing champion) life story. Newman played the part (Rocky) so well,I forgot he was PLN during the movie. That's greatness.

[chaos4NH]

I doubt very much that the 968 is an SSC or ST4 car. Looking at the rules it appears that any 2.7 - 3.0 liter NA Porsche, including the 968, would run in SSA or ST2. Welcome to the Mazdaspeed 3, BMW E30 M3 class.

[breakaway500]

Yea,it does look like an ssa/st2/spc car,depending on mods.Driven well,it shoud do fine..

[cuda6666]

Watched a wonderful Paul Newman flick last night; "Somebody up there likes me". Basically a Rocky Graziano (middleweight boxing champion) life story. Newman played the part (Rocky) so well,I forgot he was PLN during the movie. That's greatness.

That role was supposed to go to James Dean - but he had a problem in his Porsche.

[brucesallen]

Watched a wonderful Paul Newman flick last night; "Somebody up there likes me". Basically a Rocky Graziano (middleweight boxing champion) life story. Newman played the part (Rocky) so well,I forgot he was PLN during the movie. That's greatness.

I just read the new book on PLN's racing career "Winning" that I got for XMAS. Great. It includes several photos from his last race that was the Lime Rock SCCA NARRC runoffs in 2007. He won that day in GT1 with a 54 second lap. I didn't win my race.

[breakaway500]

I just recently watched the movie "Winning' for the first time,end to end. I had seen bits of it here and there before,but never sat down and watched the whole movie. I understand Paul did all his own driving,which worried the studio people.. Another nice thing about the movie "Somebody up there likes me" is it also "starred" one of my other favorite actors,Steve McQueen.They were good friends in real life. Think I'll watch "Hombre" tonite.You would not have guessed I got a 70" TV for Xmas now would you..?

[962porsche]

i just got an email from an owner of a 968 i was asking about . i have to go look at it this week end if it does not snow .god i hate winter ! my balls havent touched cotton in a week now . i'm planing on at this time to run in spc with a 968 coupe . so yah you guys were right about the 850i . i was just thinking i have the car with an extra set of wheels so any money i spent would have just gone for up grades to race it . about PL i never liked alot of his movies not that i did not like his ackting its more story lines of the movies he was in . it was fun working on his cars and he was a grate guy . joann (PL's widow ) just traded in there 2006 volvo c30 red socks addition with 847 miles on it . they did like the socks and went to the games alot . lets take our red socks volvo to the red socks game .GAY ! i do miss braking his balls ! who know that ford built PL a ford torus SHO wagon ? it was only one of 2 SHO wagons that ford made .

[breakaway500]

Movies are really all about personal tastes. First Paul Newman film I saw was with my Dad and brother at the Edgemere drive-in,"Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" a long long time ago.Have been a fan ever since. SHO wagon sounds cool. Good luck on the 968.

[962porsche]

butch cissidy and the sundance kid was a very good movie . steve McQuen was suppose to play opposite paul in that movie . but the movie studio would not pay steve McQueen what he was asking .

[gread]

If your heart is set on running a BMW, go to bimmerforums.com or bmwclubracing.com. Each site has a classified section for race car sales. There is no better way to get a car than used...
The 850 is a poor start for a race car. Heavy and complicated. The V-12 has known issues with it's silicone impregnated cylinder walls. Engine management would be a serious problem once you start cutting up the wiring harness and the list goes on. Sell the car and save yourself for something better. I'm sure there are many on this board who would appreciate and applaude you missing the pain of the road you're comtemplating.
I enjoyed a few years running a BMW race car and don't see any reason to avoid the marque, just take the time to research what accomplishments you hope to achieve. Getting any car together will be cheaper after solving that riddle.

[StephanAlfa]

I see a lot of non beamer fans trying to help out and that is nice. Hi Greg! wow! nice to "hear form you! And were are the Foote family on this? they should be proving input too!
Dan is trying to sell you his Datsun so I won't oush you to get an Alfa, as they are legendary great track cars (and I have proof!).
I have driven a 850 before, short shifting RPM rapidly increase but they are low revs and feels like ... well, a reasonably "stable" muscle car when you have some electronics assisting it (in those day you could hear the "calculations" )
So maybe it will be a nice street car but then again you don't want the complications...

You have probably seen this:


And here is a nice rocket Alfa you could perhaps be interested in (formar COM racer now doing Vintage SCCA). This car started in ST-3 at COM and was then modified to this:

[DanB]

i have been emailing with this guy Jay over in england about the 850 he races in the (RAC ? ) there scca . i have got so much info from him on car set up and parts to use . if i were to build this car for the track i would build it to spa rules . after scaling the car the power to weight comes out to be 1HP to 9.9 LBS . which is not all that bad for a stock bodyed car . but at this time i still don't know what i'm going to do . i also am looking for a porsche 968 to run in spc or st4 .

9.9 lb/hp isn't going to cut it in SPA, particularly at NHMS (which favors the lighter-weight side of the power/weight equation).
FWIW, my Z is at 9 lb/hp empty, 9.8 lb/hp with me and half a tank of fuel.
MUCH MUCH better power/weight ratios are possible with a "stock bodied car", but it helps if you pick the RIGHT car!

The 968 is an OK car (basically a gussied-up 944 with a 3.0 liter), but it's a bit heavy at 3000+ lb. I'd sooner go S2000. Oh yeah, I did
I think you'd have a HELL of a time keeping up with Marc and Mick in SPC with a car that weighs 400 lb. more and has little/no more power! IMO, better to buy an already-gutted 944 track car and swap in the 968's 3.0 liter engine.

Regarding $50k budget, that's fine if you can spend the money. Most of us wouldn't consider it even if we could, simply because you can build a winner for *any* COM class for less $$$.
But if you *must* spend that kinda dough, at least spend it *wisely*!

As far as "get a job" goes, I won two classes (SPB being a tie w/ Frank ) in COM this year while taking the year off since mid-July, slave to no one
But now the search must begin...

[962porsche]

as most people know is not what you start with its what you can end up with . (not saying you don't need a good starting point ) if i wanted to have a 3.0 porsche motor in a 944 body i would just get a 944 S2 ? but becouse the 944 and the 968 are the same car. they do use the same fixtures on my celette frame bench .( Most ) all the weight that the 968 has over the 944 is in the drivers compartment . you know bigger more padded dash ,more sound pading (the 944 had no pading at all ) , power seats just things to make the cars more streetable . not to say the bigger motor does'nt weigh more too along with the extra gear in the trans ? i do think the 968 will make a good track car . my stock 944 that runs in spc i think i'm about 6 seconds off the pace . thats a car weigh of 2805 lbs with me and a 1/2 tank fuel . putting out 139 hp@ 5800 and 140 tork @3000 red lines at 6200 falls off at 6100 . i do like the stock 50 / 50 balance of the 944 making the car alot of fun to drive . so my thinking is i'm getting a car that has better brakes . alot more hp and tork and the same handling right out of the box . now becouse its not a spec race car like my 944 . there is alot i can do to the motor along with 996 brakes , full race suspension , aerodynamics (spliter and wing ), still not a fan of a 2864 lbs s2000 with 237 hp @7800 and tork of 162 @ 6800 with a power to weiht of 12 LBS to 1 hp . i was thinking of getting another acura NSX or gen 1 M3 . but i will go check out the 968 whan the weather clears .

[agrabau]

the Porsche is at it's ceiling for hp unless you are really ready to commit to an engine build.

What about an E36 M3? That would mop the 968 up. You could even buy a prepped car for 1/2 the price of building one. For me an easy way to determine a good platform is to look at what people are using already...

An Evo X with a race gas tune and exhaust could win pretty much any class with the right driver behind the wheel. $35k all-in and it will run forever.