bmw people's input please

[962porsche]

i just picked up an 1992 bmw 850i 6 speed with 64k . every one is telling me they are junk . my plan is to make a time attack( track only) car out of it . the guy i got it from was the owner sence new and has all records . other than the spark plug chainge i did last year all the service work was ez . its the only 850 we have serviced so what i would like to know what makes theres cars junk ? the paople that are telling me there junk can't tell me why there junk ! can you ?

[breakaway500]

Is it because they weigh like 4000lbs with a 5.0L V12 that made only 300hp? I don't see that being competitive in any class. Just guessing....
I don't believe they are junk,just not sports car material. In many eyes,that makes them...junk.

[Mick]

The E31 8 series shares a lot with the E32 7 series. I know E32 has a nasty reputation for electrical issues. My guess is that because the E31 used the same drivetrain as the E32 it has the same problems and reputation.

If you’re going to turn it into a track car it may not be an issue. But I don’t know if the electrical issues are isolated to things like climate control and power seats or if it’s related to the engine harness. I’d suggest doing research on the E32, since there were a lot more of them produced than the E31.

[962porsche]

well my plan is to gut the int. and remove all unnecessary weight like window regulators and so on . i don't think the body shell and drive line are the weight issue . i just finished removing the left front seat and with 30 plus years of doing body work the only other seat i have seen that heavy is one from a volvo S60R . its got to be about 70 lbs ? the fourth gen mustang gt only has 260 hp and the weight is 3400 lbs . i can't find much info on the 750 or 850 on the BMW forums . what is a good bmw forum ?

[Dave_G]

what is a good bmw forum ?

Well, I'd imagine you'd want to start here: http://www.e31.net/

Disclaimer: I own an E30, and I'd never even heard of an E31 until this.

Update: hmm, I guess that's not really a forum. All the BMW forums I frequent are strictly E30 forums.

[betelgeuse]

bimmerforums.com is a good one. I really don't think you will find much about setting up an 8 series for the track.

If rule 23 is still in play. What you should do is plant a e36 2.8 engine into a e30 325. It would make a killer ST3 car.
The e30 is 300 hundered pounds lighter than the e36.

Greg

[962porsche]

i'm not looking as much for setups , as i am for why peaple are calling it junk . in my eyes the car is a good package . it pulls good coming out of turns . its well balanced but with some under steer(i can fix) and the thing has real good brakes . the e31.net sight was good .

[breakaway500]

How about parts availability? If they are not that common,can you get replacement parts reasonably priced? I still think that shell is going to be heavy. That started life as a luxury car,and they added lots of steel in places to make the ride smooth and quiet. Weight is your enemy. If you gut it too much you may end up in a prepared class,where it might get tough to win.(assuming winning is your goal) You may run with a 260hp Mustang.. but at what operating cost? Just playing devils advocate..

[962porsche]

i was up late last night investigating things about this car . like Mick stated they have electrical issues . there is a guy over in England that has been an BMW tech for 34 years . he sent me some info about the issues with the car . most of them have to do with the check-control lights ,switches, instruments, and the biggest one is the automatic climate control . he also stated that the drive line on the 7's and 8's are very good . his GT classed 1994 850ci wins his road racing class most of the time . the motor is very detuned for street use . he stated some things about the potential of the motor and the biggest one that sticks out is that McLaren picked it for there F1 road cars . i check on parts cost and availability . becouse the motors are the same as the 7's there on par with the porsche's i'm used to .the new oil pump for my 944 was 623 dollars . as for body panels i looked up most of them in my collision estimating guide they also are about the same as porsche except the hood. OUTCH ! but a hood for a miata is not all that cheap either . it may not be a ladder on steroids like the atom . but i 'm thinking it may be a good car for time trails . maybe not with comscc but more with nasa and emra and alike .

[Mick]

Well it sure would be fun, and it'll look good doing it.

[breakaway500]

I would not even put that car on the same planet as the Atom.Both were designed for entirely different drivers and driving experiences..You could almost say the opposite ends of the rainbow.The Atom gives up nothing to luxury or comfort,whereas the 850 is all about luxury and style.
Dave,I am all for crazy cars on track,don't get me wrong. However,if you intend that big luxury BMW to be seriously competitive in a COM class,you may be disappointed. You say your 944 is not competitive in its class,so why build another car that won't be either? I am only trying to point out what I see as obstacals in the path for you to build a class winning car out of the BMW. I think BMW's are one of the best cars made today,but not all of them should be considered for serious track use. Yes,some people will do anything to some cars,even supercharge a Focus.But in the long run..unless you are doing it just for 100% fun..you may be dissappointed with the performance results.
Like a wise man once said to me.."why try to reinvent the wheel" ...right,Lester?

[agrabau]

This just seems like an expensive and bad idea. There's no extra performance to be found in any of the "extras" that make it a good car.

[962porsche]

i just came across this car for a real good price after the PO could not sell it over this past summer . other than a few stone chips on the front bumper its a ten point ( all stock )show car . and i was just stating that with the atom there are no body panels to buy if you crash it . i do like your car ALOT ! becouse of comscc car classing rules i'm looking more at all the clubs i do time trails with . its a car that is on par with the porsche 928 in size ,weight , and power out put . partscost and availability are also the same . if i do decide to flip it than what car and in what class would you get ?????? with a budget of about 50k .

[DanB]

If you want a good track car, you're MUCH better off selling the 850 and starting with something else. Lotsa BMW's make GREAT track cars, but as already mentioned, the 8-series isn't one of them. Quite heavy, basically a 2-door 7-series. Way way way better off starting with an E30 or E36 3-series.

The F1's BMW V12 shares no parts with the older V12 that went into the 8-series. The F1's V12 was a smaller, lighter-weight engine.
Gordon Murray/McLaren didn't "pick" the 750/850 V12, rather BMW custom designed and built the F1's engine to a design spec from McLaren.

At the track, it's all about power/weight. Consider that all the effort you expend gutting an 8-series to get it down to, say 3400 lb., would get an E36 down to something like 2800 lb. or less. Or you could get a Z3 or E30 3-series and get it down to ~2600 or less.

Not what you want to hear, I know, but if it's a dedicated track/timetrial car you want, I think you'll be happier starting with something that's a lot lighter-weight.

[DanB]

i just came across this car for a real good price after the PO could not sell it over this past summer . other than a few stone chips on the front bumper its a ten point ( all stock )show car . and i was just stating that with the atom there are no body panels to buy if you crash it . i do like your car ALOT ! becouse of comscc car classing rules i'm looking more at all the clubs i do time trails with . its a car that is on par with the porsche 928 in size ,weight , and power out put . partscost and availability are also the same . if i do decide to flip it than what car and in what class would you get ?????? with a budget of about 50k .

If it's stock and in great shape, all the more reason not to trackify it.

$50k budget?! TONS of options. Neither the 928 nor the 850i should be on the list, though!

You could buy my 2300 lb. 240Z, turbo it to the tune of 500hp [edit: actually, 350hp would do it, but as long as you've got $50k...] or so, install a chassis-stiffening cage and destroy everything in SPA if you wanted