'04 classification for WRX's and STi's?

[kfoote]

Dennis,<br>
<br>
I haven't weighed it yet, but I figure the weight of the STi is somewhere between 3000-3100 lbs without driver, which would only make it 100-200 lbs heavier than your Eclipse. Also, the gearing fo the STi is just about perfect for NHIS with the 6-speed transmission. From what I remember of the Eclipse, the brakes on the STi are slightly better, but probably only enough to offset the extra weight of the car. A properly set up ST-legal STi should handle just as good as the Eclipse now that fully adjustable coil over suspensions are ST legal as well. <br>
<br>
Also, the other "tuner cars" in ST (E30 and E36 M3, Mustang Cobra R, 944 turbo S, etc.) are allowed to make all the ST-legal changes and stay in ST, so with the STi and legal ST changes, you're looking at a very good handling 350 HP car in ST1.<br>
<br>
I also agree that an SPB prepped STi would be one of the better SPB cars. Having taken mine apart a bit, you could probably get it under 2800 lbs and get it well over 400 HP.<br>
<br>
The adjustable center diff on the STi does make a difference in how the car handles depending on the setting, and is a useable tool for adjusting handling while the car is on the track. On the street, it is of some use, but how I use it on the street is more a fuction of what I learned about it on the track than anything else.

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[DennisC]

Kevin<br>
<br>
From the Subaru website:<br>
<br>
WRX curb weight: 3085lbs. (manual trans)<br>
STi curb weight: 3263lbs. (manual trans).<br>
<br>
Dennis

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[comsccAdmin]

In addition to what you have seen here, there has been quite<br>
a bit of hand wringing about this in other channels.<br>
<br>
After considerable debate, we're going to put the WRX STi<br>
and Lancer Evolution into SSU for 2004, and when modified<br>
for ST, they will go to STGT.<br>
<br>
-Herb<br>


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[DennisC]

Herb<br>
<br>
Sorry but IMO, the classification of the WRX STi and EvoVIII in SSU is a mistake. The car will not be competitive in either SSU or, with allowable modifications, in STGT. <br>
<br>
Glad I have my own 2 liter that will do 1:05's at NHIS (North Chicane - South Oval) without a turbo so I don't have to deal with this stuff. <br>
<br>
DennisC

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[throoster]

Dennis, I think that you've been away from COM for too long, some things have changed in the past couple years. As I am sure you know, new cars are unbelievable from the factory(faster, stronger, better). DOT Tires and track brakes are also fantastic. <br>
First there is no comparing the new WRX STi and the EVO your Eclipse. While your former car is fantastic in a modified form, it had about what an entry level sports car has today. I'm thinking about the new Civic Si/RSX, Neon etc...With 195 hp stock and 203 lb-ft of tq it would be no match for a 300 hp/300 lb-ft tq STi(257hp/266tq at the wheels), with both weighing about the same from what I have been able to see.<br>
Second, while we do have a number of WRX and STi's running in ST, none are really prepared to the full aspects of the ST rules. Most only have a chip or some other minor modification that bumps them without providing a real measure of gain. No springs, performance shocks, etc...You were right to suggest removing these mods and seeing the result.<br>
I personally would love to see either an STi or EVO done to the level of your Eclipse. I agree that it would be a killer SPB car and would be very hard to beat, even for FTD. <br>
Stop fooling around with those strange winged things and build another sedan<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
Chris Aylward

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[rajito]

Glad we have a decision now! <br>
<br>
Last year's SSU field was rather mellow, so next year it will be interesting with the stock STi's and Evo's in the mix. I agree with Dennis - if someone decides to bring a Viper (450-500hp, 3300-3400lbs) or a Z06 (405hp, 3100lbs) or an Esprit V8 turbo (350hp, 3050lbs), they would clean up.<br>
<br>
Chris, as far as I know, I was the only clown who took the Fast and the Furious approach with my WRX last year. All other WRX's in ST had some suspension (at least springs/shocks) to go along with their power mods (if any).<br>
<br>
Raj <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub25.ezboard.com/bcomsportscarc ... >rajito</A> at: 1/6/04 12:28 pm<br></i>

[throoster]

"...some suspension (atleast springs/shocks)..." Raj<br>
<br>
Are they running real track set ups or your typical "Fast and Furious" ( your words<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ) ones? Have you ever driven a car with commonly available "sport" springs?. Haven driven my Audi, stock, sport and coil overs, I can tell you the "sport" springs have nothing other than ride height over the stock springs. Now that Kevin has, at least a test bed, a coil over set up you should see a real difference in what can be done.<br>
<br>
In regards to your comment about the Vipers and Z06's. You would be surprised their numbers don't alway add up to a strong finsh. I saw a Skip Barber Viper with a Skippy Instructor behind the wheel at LRP a few years back. Was not that impressed. On the other hand we do have some very talented drivers in those cars, so...<br>
<br>
Chris

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[rajito]

Haha. I live my life 1.6 miles at a time. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
I don't think any of the WRX's were running track coilovers. Many people had much stiffer springs and struts than stock, and some were running the STi suspension on the WRX. Track coilovers probably would gain some more tenths, but none of the WRX's are trailer queens and their owners, sissies that they are, like their major organs still attached to their original mounting points on the ride to and from the track <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
I'd like to see Bruce Allen drive a Viper in SSU. That would upset a lot of the others <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
Raj

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[KMMotorsports]

I would agree that the SSU field has gotten very sparse. Two years ago at WGI, it was myself (in an 11 year old, 245hp Corvette) and one other guy in a TT 300Z. Anyone with a standard C5 could have beat either of us by a hefty margin. I think that the STI would probably be faster than I was in the '91Vette on race pads and BFG-Rs.<br>
<br>
I blame the Miatas for the lack of SSU participation. Almost all of the guys that were running Corvettes 3 years ago have bought those little girlie cars (including my dad..... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ).

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[johnb]

Ya - I second Dennis...isn't anyone out there building and Sti or EVO 8 to do 1:11's using the South Oval? It should be that hard to do. I know Doug's and my car with a little work can get there and ours are ancient hunks of junk.
You can do it Kevin!

[zip4zat]

Holy old thread Batman!

Maybe this needs to be revitalized in discussing the WRX/STI classification with the '06 models.

'06 STI are mostly unchanged aside from the Subaru beutification program, your call on that one...

'06 WRX's will be upgraded to a 2.5L turbo from a 2.0L turbo (a la Forester XT) and will come standard with upgraded braking system with 4 pot/2 pot billet calipers (a la JDM STI from a few years back) over the now current 2pot/1pot sliding calipers. These are probably the more significnt changes over the '02-'05 WRX's.

More discussion probably deserves its own thread or into the Rules proposal.

[kfoote]

Yes, it's an old thread

As for EVO's and STi's running 1:11's in ST trim, the fastest EVO and STi qualified at 1:14.4 and 1:14.3 respectively at the SCCA National in T2 using the South Oval configuration, and they have to run stock wheel size, stock tire size, stock springs, stock sway bars, stock intake, and full interior, and have no modifications that make them illegal for COM ST. Given those times, 1:11's are not out of the question.

[RyanC]

Having campaigned all season in STGT with a barely tweaked STI, I don't think Dennis was right with his prediction of the car not being competitive. Both STGT and SSU are (at this time) being led by, oh look at that, STIs.

Now, it can be argued that the competition in both of those classes hasn't been all that intense this season, but the fact remains that the cars have done pretty well. Given the tracks we run, the higher hp on both the Vettes and the Vipers isn't a huge factor. Thankfully we aren't doing an Road Atlanta events, or else I'd have to change my position on where I'm classed.

Somebody needs to bring a Viper and/or more Z06s to the party to make Raj's and my lives a little harder!

[rajito]

Hey now! My life is difficult enough with the other Injun in SSU. Too bad there aren't any noobs in my class to make me feel good about a second place finish

The '06 WRX has a 2.5L motor that makes marginally more horsepower, but has a much better torque curve. It also comes with 4 pot front brakes which should improve the braking performance. I think given equivalent drivers, it will be quicker than the '02-'05 WRX's. However, it is too slow for SSU/STGT and too fast for SSA/ST2 (?). It probably will best fit in SSGT/ST1, even though it's quicker than the previous model years.

Raj

[zip4zat]

Hey now! My life is difficult enough with the other Injun in SSU. Too bad there aren't any noobs in my class to make me feel good about a second place finish

The '06 WRX has a 2.5L motor that makes marginally more horsepower, but has a much better torque curve. It also comes with 4 pot front brakes which should improve the braking performance. I think given equivalent drivers, it will be quicker than the '02-'05 WRX's. However, it is too slow for SSU/STGT and too fast for SSA/ST2 (?). It probably will best fit in SSGT/ST1, even though it's quicker than the previous model years.

Raj

dont make me beat ur arrrs :whip:

I think the '06 wrx would go in SSGT but a ST 06 WRX will probably be a much more capable car than the 02-05 simply by displacement, but very lacking when put up against a STI. The original engine must be used per the ST rules as it stands. It wouldnt stand a chance against any of the other cars in STGT though.

"Updating and back-dating of components are not allowed in Street Touring (ST),
unless specified below. The original engine (or direct replacement) that was
manufactured with the car must be used."

Maybe its the new cheater car next year...