Rule#23 - Thumbs up to the board members

[DanDarcy]

Paul it is very difficult to police the exsisting rules let alone adding a horse power componant to the mix. And yes rule change #23 says from a donor car but how do you know the motor out of the componant car was not put together from parts. I have a Nissan Sentra SER Spec V (2002) which had a bad motor , I bought a 2005 Altima wreck and installed that motor. It is the same as a Spec V so why would I not be able to use a Navigator block ? It is the same as the Cobra R ? If we require that that the motor be original to the car or donor , a lot of Com compeditors would be in trouble. The Mercedes conv. in my avatar , is a low milage , completely stock, unrestored, two owner car yet the motor was replced because Mercedes had a lower end bearing problem with the 250SE motors , if I was to take the motor out of this car and installed it in a 220SE (both 111 chassis) , would that be illegal because the motor is not original ?
Mark, it is easy to say lets just allow 1.8 engines in 1.6 Miatas, but what if others say hey why can't we has LS 6 in my LS Corvette and so on ? Do we add those changes to the rule ?

[breakaway500]

Dan,you tell them (LS6 to LS Vette)to submit a rule change to allow that swap. Then they can pray.
It could be quite simple; allow a 1.6 OR 1.8 in Miatas,regardless of what was once under the hood. Sometimes a general rule is not the best way to get something specific acomplished. You can then pass or fail the proposal at face value, without worrying about what may happen in some madmans laboratory... Abby Normal!

[boltonite]

Okay, to get back to the main point of this thread:

Rule proposal #23, clause X.12.C, is in conflict with the current ST rule that permits nonstock motor mounts, or am I mistaken?

As a Spec Miata guy who felt screwed by the COM rules (Spec Miata almost qualifies for ST, some SM racers actually had registered race cars), I empathize w/ those who feel the rules unfairly penalize certain mods but, to be blunt, a motor swap is WAY more extreme than removing your headliner or carpeting ... cry me a river, as the LeMons judges would say.

FF

[zip4zat]

Calling Judge Jonny.... <who loves spec miatas btw>

[mr2sc]

Well, if the Miata was put out there, then Judge Jonny was within his rights to do whatever...

Frankly, it was a bit annoying that it was in the wrong place at the right time when I was dicing for a pass under braking into the left hand kink before the hairpin. It just motored up past me (never thought that I'd be whining about a Miata blasting past me), then took the spot that I was going to use to dive-bomb an otherwise more powerful car. The only place I could get him was under braking.

None of this would have even been worthy of comment, cept that y'all were only using the event for lapping and not actually in the race. So...when your Miata got Judge Jonny's attention, I figured..."oh well"

PS sorry about having strayed off topic, but reading this thread, it occurs to me that I'd love to be allowed to shoehorn my current 2l 3SGTE into the MR2 instead of its 1.6l 4AGZE and not get bumped

[WillM]

Dan,

Your knowledge of interchangeable auto parts is almost scary! I feel like we're playing the automotive version of "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". Yikes!

If I ever make it to "Who wants to be a Millionaire", I'm putting you and Lou M. on my phone-a-friend list!

Question about the Mustangs. How are the brakes different between a stock base model, GT, SVT, or COBRA R, and can the Cobra R brakes swap onto a base model?

[TroyV]

On the SN95 cars , the V6 and GT brakes are the same.......poor. The Machs got the 13.1" Cobra PBR 2 piston calipers in front, and stock GT brakes rear, the standard Cobras got the PBR fronts, and 11" vented rear rotors with what is essentially the same as the GT caliper.....just spaced off to the proper location. The 00R got the Brembo caliper in front which is the same as on the early Dodge Viper, Volvo S60R (rear), and a few other cars too boring to mention. The Brembo uses the stock Cobra rotor and does not require any additional bracketry to mount to the SN95 spindle.

IMO...The 00R brakes were still woefully inadequate for my 03 Cobra unless you ran a seriously aggressive pad. That car was VERY heavy.

On edit: The Brembo brakes will not clear any stock 16" wheels. They will not clear all but one of the available stock 17x8 (98 Cobra wheels) and will clear a good portion of the 17x9" wheels available through those years, but not all of them.

[DanDarcy]

Well I guess Troy did a great job of answering your question Will. I have the Cobra R (Brembo) on my Cobra. They just bolt right on. I did shear a rotor hat off of the Brembo rotors at WGI with only 700 miles on them. So as troy said the brakes are better but not the best in the world. I had been using DBA5000 two piece aluminum hat rotors to prevent another rotor shearing off at 145 mph. My wheels are 18 '" in order to clear the rotors( I also have a set of 1998 Cobra wheels off of my spare car with regular road tires on them for the rain)., they are 2000 Cobra wheels from Ford Motorsports. I use Hawk blues but have been reaching temps of over 1200 degrees on the rotors, blue are only good to 1000 degrees. I have found the two piece rotors run 200-300 degrees hotter than the one piece cast. As troy says Mustangs are heavy, 3 years ago I weight my car at NHIS and found it to be 3720# with half a tank of fuel and no driver and I've added weight since, so I would love to put an extra 150 h.p. under the hood but I'm just not sure Rule # 23 is the way to do it.

[TroyV]

Dan, off topic, but you should really check out the Cobalt XR2.. They make blues look like the Pats D tonight.

[horizenjob]

As troy says Mustangs are heavy, 3 years ago I weight my car at NHIS and found it to be 3720#

Ouch! Too bad things always get heavier, I weighed my '86 Gt and it came in about 3150, with fuel, as I recollect.

[kfoote]

Yes, I've been out of touch with the club for a while, but I don't like this.

As a couple of obvious examples of "Why can't I do this"

Why can't I run the VR6 engine in my Corrado that came with the G60 engine? Except for the aspiration, number of cylinders, and electronics, they're otherwise identical.

Or why can I run the 2.0L Turbo engine in my VW Beetle TDi, but not the VR6?

Or why can't I run a v6 in my Mustang SVO that I blew the engine on?

And why is it OK to put a LS7 engine from the Z06 Corvette into my base C6 and still stay in STGT, but I can't put just the cams in without changing the entire engine?

[DanDarcy]

You don't have to worry Kevin, rule change #23 was repealed. A new rule was approved that would allow the 1990- 1997 Miata (NA) model to run either a 1.6 liter or the 1.8 liter provided that booth engines were ST legal (in other word stock) So a 1990 model which came with a 1.6 lit. can run a 1.8 liter motor out of a 1996 provided it remains stock and unmodified.

[offcamber09]

I thought it was pretty cool how much $ was being spent in this thread, Guess people are feeling better about their 401ks!

[chaos4NH]

Nah, no money spent Scott. We are all volunteers