meth/water injection info

[nhsilversti]

using water has 2 reasons while methanol only raises the "octane" of the fuel

to raise the compression ration
and
to carry more heat out of the combustion chamber. 1cc of water(steam after combustion) will hold more heat than 1cc of air

a side effect of water is it also keeps deposits from forming on the pistons and valves

water meth injestion is really only used in turbo/supercharged motors to help stabilize them. your thought of a seperate injector is correct but not in the terms you are thinking. while i do have 100cc's (in an accumulator) of 125psi water/meth it is injected into the intake tube through a .8mm jet not a typical thought of "injector"

[breakaway500]

Methanol IS alcohol. It is methyl alcohol,100%. Yes,if you heat windshield washer fluid and "boil", or distill off the alcohol,it certainly will ignite.

[cuda6666]

I don't know how many of you have noticed, but the proposal to treat water/meth as a fuel passed as a new rule during the recent board meeting. So be it. That means that those of us with windshield washer fluid tanks in our trunks may have to add a bulkhead between the trunk and the passenger compartment. But be aware that someone even more hysterical has entered a proposal stating that cars running water/meth injection be moved to Prepared and add full fire supression systems. If this proposed rule affects you, make sure you attend the November meeting to vote it down. I, for one, will not be running with COM next year if it passes.

[breakaway500]

It also means you will have to run steel lines if they pass through the passenger compartment.Actually,they should be stainless steel due to the fact that methanol is very corrosive to steel.Since COM can't determine what concentration of methanol/water is being used, all methanol injection will be handled as if it were at 100% concentration,otherwise there would be no need for a fuel tank requirement for its storage. In for a penny,in for a pound. Members can't vote directly on proposals,by the way. What members can do is express their objections (or support ) to proposals, and the board members can then move on a proposal,it's seconded and then voted on,and votes counted..pass or fail..Or,it receives no support..or is not seconded,or it can be continued...

[brucesallen]

Frank,
The rule passed says that Methanol when injected into the engine shall be considered a fuel and therefore must meet fuel safety specs. Does not affect windshield washers. Note that some members have several gallons of flammable methanol/water mix in the car for injection.

[jlwhorf]

Since COM can't determine what concentration of methanol/water is being used

Couldn't something like this be used?

http://www.toolrage.com/prodView.asp?sku=EZR-S104

[cuda6666]

Frank,
The rule passed says that Methanol when injected into the engine shall be considered a fuel and therefore must meet fuel safety specs. Does not affect windshield washers. Note that some members have several gallons of flammable methanol/water mix in the car for injection.

My point was that eveyone I know who uses water/meth injection has a small tank filled with the equivalent of windshield washer fluid for injection. Mine happens to be in the trunk. There has never been a documented case on planet Earth where this has caused a problem. Rather than pushing every street car that uses water/meth injection into Prepared, COM should think a little harder about ways to determine if some moron is running straight meth.

[cuda6666]

Since COM can't determine what concentration of methanol/water is being used

Couldn't something like this be used?

http://www.toolrage.com/prodView.asp?sku=EZR-S104

Duh!! Why spend $11 bucks for a way to test meth concentration when you can alienate some members instead?

[breakaway500]

^I agree,find the person using 100% methanol. The concentration of methanol should be what determines if the fluid is considered a "fuel"
or merely windshield washer fluid. Unfortunately,that is not what has happened.As it is,methanol mix will become a fuel. Jonathan,that tester won't tell you the specific concentration of methanol/water on the scale in percentage,as it is only looking for a freezing point of the solution being tested BUT...you could use it to determine concentration by testing a 50/50 mixture and see where it reads on that scale and mark it accordingly. Simple solution.

I don't see this as an alienation of anyone....more like a fact finding mission. There really is nothing on the books,and some are concerned about safety.I really do understand the reasoning behind it all,just not too happy with the direction it went,so far...

[cuda6666]

If all cars using standard water/meth injection (50/50 concentration) get pushed into Prepared, you will see the results of elienation.

[jlwhorf]

My point was not to say that was the tool to use, but that methanol hydrometers are not rocket science...well maybe they were developed...but presently they are a simple solution.

[breakaway500]

^Good information,Jonathan. A viable solution would be nice. I don't think all methanol "fuel " injection systems should be treated the same.

[brucesallen]

If all cars using standard water/meth injection (50/50 concentration) get pushed into Prepared, you will see the results of elienation.

This proposal is new today and has not been discussed and I am not in favor of it.

[breakaway500]

What are you in favor of,Bruce? A total ban on methanol injection?Or,not allowing anything stronger than 50/50 and treating it like a fuel? Or, there really is no problem with 30%meth/70%water systems as presently designed,and just make sure no one is spiking their mixes? Or..something completely different..

[nhsilversti]

99.9% of the water/meth injection systems cant have the jet installed AFTER the throttle body....i would say a reasonable distance from the throttle body is 12" or less.

just as an example i inject using a .7mm jet which flows about 300cc's per minute. while i have a "large" tank (12L) it is mainly so i dont end up with it sloshing around and shutting the system down (one of its failsafes)

at mosport 2008 i consumed a total of 2.5 gallons of meth which was mixed with 3 gallons of water. at NHMS i dont think i have used more than 3 gallons total mix on a 2 day event.

i like the idea of marking the outside of the car indicating methanol use. i would want the first responders to know.
maybe a blue circle with an M in it could be used

cliff notes:
injecting after TB is not a viable option
12L tank is only 6L of methanol IF full.
decal indicating methanol is ok