meth/water injection info
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- breakaway500
- Speed Racer
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meth/water injection info
There is a rule change proposal to consider methanol/water injection as an actual fuel system. For those who don't know much about the subject,here is a quick rundown on the fluid being used in most systems designed to use it as a supplement for detonation control.
6. What fluid can I use in my meth/water injection system?
• Boost Juice®: This is the best fluid to use and is Snow Performance’s 49% methanol, 51% water mixture that can be shipped to your door or picked up at a local dealer. (If you are using your washer reservoir as the injection tank, Boost Juice® is a great washer fluid – works as a de-icer!)
• Windshield Washer fluid: Only if it is blue in color and rated for -20 deg F. It should have no special additives. This means it is safe to use and made of about 30% methanol, 70% water. If it is another color or another temperature rating, do not use it.
• You can “spike” your Blue -20 Washer fluid to a 50% mixture by adding 2 yellow bottles of Heet® gas-line-antifreeze to every gallon of washer fluid.
• Mix your own: You just need to make sure the methanol is “neat” and contains no lubricants or other additives. We recommend a 50% mixture.
• Ethanol: It is not as good as methanol, but it can be used as a 2nd best option if you can’t find methanol. It can also be mixed with water up to 50%.
• Do NOT use E85 or any other fluid with gasoline mixed in. It will destroy the fluid delivery part of your Boost Cooler® and instantly void the warranty.
• Isopropyl/Denatured Alcohols: These can be used, but are not as good as methanol. They have a lower BTU, or energy content, and a lower latent heat of vaporization (fancy way of saying how much heat they absorb) as well as a lower octane rating compared to methanol.
7. Why Methanol?
100% Methanol is a very high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these characteristics, it suppresses detonation more effectively than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It is toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.Methanol in a 50/50 mix with water is NOT flammable.
You will notice that ordinary washer fluid is 30% methanol and 70% water. That means every car with a windshield washer system is currently running around with this "fuel".
Water/methanol injection is not dangerous in the concentrations being used for detonation control. It should NOT be treated as a fuel any more than the washer fluid under the hood of every car on the road. If it were a hazard,you would see the Dept. of Transportation stepping in to do something about it. I know of no other sanctioning body that treats a methanol/water injection system as a fuel.
If you are going to run 100% methanol in your car,there are already rules that cover fuel storage and delivery.
I say leave meth/water injection without regulations.
6. What fluid can I use in my meth/water injection system?
• Boost Juice®: This is the best fluid to use and is Snow Performance’s 49% methanol, 51% water mixture that can be shipped to your door or picked up at a local dealer. (If you are using your washer reservoir as the injection tank, Boost Juice® is a great washer fluid – works as a de-icer!)
• Windshield Washer fluid: Only if it is blue in color and rated for -20 deg F. It should have no special additives. This means it is safe to use and made of about 30% methanol, 70% water. If it is another color or another temperature rating, do not use it.
• You can “spike” your Blue -20 Washer fluid to a 50% mixture by adding 2 yellow bottles of Heet® gas-line-antifreeze to every gallon of washer fluid.
• Mix your own: You just need to make sure the methanol is “neat” and contains no lubricants or other additives. We recommend a 50% mixture.
• Ethanol: It is not as good as methanol, but it can be used as a 2nd best option if you can’t find methanol. It can also be mixed with water up to 50%.
• Do NOT use E85 or any other fluid with gasoline mixed in. It will destroy the fluid delivery part of your Boost Cooler® and instantly void the warranty.
• Isopropyl/Denatured Alcohols: These can be used, but are not as good as methanol. They have a lower BTU, or energy content, and a lower latent heat of vaporization (fancy way of saying how much heat they absorb) as well as a lower octane rating compared to methanol.
7. Why Methanol?
100% Methanol is a very high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these characteristics, it suppresses detonation more effectively than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It is toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.Methanol in a 50/50 mix with water is NOT flammable.
You will notice that ordinary washer fluid is 30% methanol and 70% water. That means every car with a windshield washer system is currently running around with this "fuel".
Water/methanol injection is not dangerous in the concentrations being used for detonation control. It should NOT be treated as a fuel any more than the washer fluid under the hood of every car on the road. If it were a hazard,you would see the Dept. of Transportation stepping in to do something about it. I know of no other sanctioning body that treats a methanol/water injection system as a fuel.
If you are going to run 100% methanol in your car,there are already rules that cover fuel storage and delivery.
I say leave meth/water injection without regulations.
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"
Re: meth/water injection info
I believe that the current rules allow water/meth injection and 100% methanol as fuel in SP and P. Last time I looked, I didn't see anything that disallowed it.
I just read the rule change and it would disallow the injection bottle in the passenger compartment.
I just read the rule change and it would disallow the injection bottle in the passenger compartment.
Last edited by jlwhorf on Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
- breakaway500
- Speed Racer
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- Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:47 am
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Re: meth/water injection info
There is nothing currently that addresses meth/water injection,however someone has proposed the following:
New Rule:
****************************************
Methenol mixed with water for injection will be considered a fuel and it\'s container will be considered a fuel tank.
****************************************
Just thought I would point out the proposed rule restriction and what it would require of users of the juice. Especially since I plan on using meth/water injection in the near future.
New Rule:
****************************************
Methenol mixed with water for injection will be considered a fuel and it\'s container will be considered a fuel tank.
****************************************
Just thought I would point out the proposed rule restriction and what it would require of users of the juice. Especially since I plan on using meth/water injection in the near future.
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"
Re: meth/water injection info
The main reason to use Boost Juice is that it's designed for the purpose and is consistent in it's composition. This is critical, since you tune for water/meth injection, and any variabilty in the fluid you use after tuning could cause a problem. For example, I would never trust Market Basket windshield washer fluid to have a consistent percent methanol from bottle to bottle or from month to month.
Subaru Legacy GT #67
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
Re: meth/water injection info
So we'll see you guys at the rules meeting?breakaway500 wrote: I say leave meth/water injection without regulations.
Les.
COM Instructor
NA Miata D-TYPE
#77
Drive it like you stole it!
COM Instructor
NA Miata D-TYPE
#77
Drive it like you stole it!
- breakaway500
- Speed Racer
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- Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:47 am
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Re: meth/water injection info
Is it in December sometime?
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"
Re: meth/water injection info
The proposal on the table just calls for a firewall between the water/meth tank and the passenger compartment. I don't see that as regulating the use of water/meth.
Subaru Legacy GT #67
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
Re: meth/water injection info
i guess u guys are going to use the stock washer system hahaha
Re: meth/water injection info
Actually, it's a bulkhead. I don't think it's intended for a gas tank to be in the engine compartment behind a firewall.cuda6666 wrote:The proposal on the table just calls for a firewall between the water/meth tank and the passenger compartment. I don't see that as regulating the use of water/meth.
Les.
COM Instructor
NA Miata D-TYPE
#77
Drive it like you stole it!
COM Instructor
NA Miata D-TYPE
#77
Drive it like you stole it!
Re: meth/water injection info
Yes, bulkhead. Firewalls are too porous - especially Windows firewalls.
Subaru Legacy GT #67
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
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- Speed Setter
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- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:38 pm
- Location: southern NH
Re: meth/water injection info
i feel like im being targeted....hehehhehee
right now i have a metal "bulkhead" though it dosent fit quite as tight as i think it should. winter should solve that problem no matter what happens with the rule.
right now i have a metal "bulkhead" though it dosent fit quite as tight as i think it should. winter should solve that problem no matter what happens with the rule.
need parts for your trailer, welding repairs/fabrication (sorry cant do aluminum), tires mounted and balanced, feel free to email/pm me. i am located a little west of nashua. ted
Re: meth/water injection info
I'd have to say that I am not in favor of this rule change. I think it's been pretty well addressed that a methanol/water mix poses no greater risk than commercial windshield washer fluid. Requiring a 'fuel' tank just seems silly. What about the STi's & Evo's that have water-spray systems as standard equipment? Perfectly legal under SS rules, yet would seem to be covered under this rule change. Those systems do not spray the mixture into the engine directly, however the purpose is not much different.
-Keith-
SPB116
SPB116
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- Speed Setter
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Re: meth/water injection info
keith i read it as the container will be considered a fuel tank not it must be in a fuel tank/cell.
this will deal with safety issues like making sure people vent to outside the car, the tank is very securely mounted and real hardline or braided line runs through the passengers compartment.
this will deal with safety issues like making sure people vent to outside the car, the tank is very securely mounted and real hardline or braided line runs through the passengers compartment.
need parts for your trailer, welding repairs/fabrication (sorry cant do aluminum), tires mounted and balanced, feel free to email/pm me. i am located a little west of nashua. ted
- breakaway500
- Speed Racer
- Posts: 2663
- Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:47 am
- Location: In my shop,usually.
Re: meth/water injection info
I'm not in favor of the rule/restriction either. I have never heard of meth/water injection being a safety issue,ever.Just don't drink it..
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"
Re: meth/water injection info
Windshield fluid or water may be safe, but when people start brewing their own, safety comes into question.ctkag wrote:I'd have to say that I am not in favor of this rule change. I think it's been pretty well addressed that a methanol/water mix poses no greater risk than commercial windshield washer fluid. Requiring a 'fuel' tank just seems silly. What about the STi's & Evo's that have water-spray systems as standard equipment? Perfectly legal under SS rules, yet would seem to be covered under this rule change. Those systems do not spray the mixture into the engine directly, however the purpose is not much different.
Do a search on methanol.
Seeing we have no test to know what's being injected, where is the harm in having WI bottles out of the engine compartment and plumbed correctly?
Les.
COM Instructor
NA Miata D-TYPE
#77
Drive it like you stole it!
COM Instructor
NA Miata D-TYPE
#77
Drive it like you stole it!
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