Longer session times for run groups 1&2

[breakaway500]

What would be the consensus on advanced run groups having longer run times? I have had the opportunity to run 30 minute sessions recently,and although we are only talking about an 8 minute difference,those 8 minutes are 3-5 extra hot laps at most tracks. It seems with 22 minute run times, you are just getting spread out nicely,and the car warmed up, and that checkered flag is waving.
Also- with the advanced run groups,passing was allowed on the warm-up lap (with a point by,of course). It worked well to eliminate early freight train situations.
I don't know if the numbers could work but that is why I am throwing this out there. Not really a rule change,more like an operational policy consideration.
Just looking for other members opinions,nothing more.

[chaos4NH]

8 hours of open track, now we are talking!

[breakaway500]

Promises,promises...

[cuda6666]

I'm for shorter sessions - see below

[DanDarcy]

Hi Mark, I brought this subject up with the BOD. Most of the instructor members thought that 30 minutes was too much for most students, especially an inexperienced one. As a new student there is so much to think about and so much to learn that you can get sensory overload. Maybe we could have longer sessions for licensed drivers, or as Sam suggests 8 hours of open track A three day event, one HPDE day, one time trial day, and one day open track. Just some thoughts to think about

[ctkag]

Ahh, I remember a certain Summit Point event...two run groups...one from 8AM to Noon, the second from 1PM to 5. Too bad there were only about 20 of us there.

[breakaway500]

Fine. So the ADVANCED(licensed and anyone else who qualifies) run groups have 30 minutes. The beginners,etc...can still go out for 22 minutes.

Just because you can go out for 30 minutes,doesn't necessarily mean you have to,or will. Might come late out,or have to come in after 25 for fuel. Might get tired. It's a window of opportunity. Anyone can come in any time they have had enough.

22 minutes sucks compared to a 30 minute window.

Think about passing out on the warm up as well. I'm not saying someone should go balls out to see how many cars he(or she) can pass during the warm-up...I'm saying it was nice to be able to pass people who warm up slower than you do. I like to warm up fast. You need to practice this for time trials. It was done very safely with the NEQ club and COM drivers are...better! Hell,we are a competition club,right?

[DanB]

IMO, the students need the track time more than the advanced group. I wouldn't be opposed to going to fewer, longer run groups for the advanced groups vs. a greater number of shorter stints for students.

But students definitely should not be short-changed on total track time!

[breakaway500]

I am not advocating shortening student run groups..merely making advanced run groups a little longer. 8 minutes longer.
It does not seem like much till you have a chance to run them for a few days in a row.
I consider myself a student and am constantly learning. Always.
One thing I have learned is I really like longer track sessions
Some of the instructor sessions with NEQ were one hour long!
Yea,I know...go run with NEQ. Well,I plan to..but I believe COM could look at making advanced and instructor run groups longer.
Food for thought.

[lou m]

The schedule works perfectly as is. Away events are good opportunities for major track time. Open track sessions at NHMS are the ticket if you want to really put major miles at that track. On a hot day like August 1st, personally, I couldn't have used more track time, and probably wouldn't have made it through all the student sessions. I do go to the gym but I also eat too much ice cream

[jlwhorf]

I have to agree with Mark, and especially at WGI. Being stuck behind a slower car on 2 warm up laps is an eternity there. Also, I remember being a student, I always wanted longer run sessions too. It seemed like between waiting for an instructor to climb out of his previous students car, and then helping him strap into a 5 point harness, the session was partly over when I finally entered the track. After that, when I got in a comfortable groove, the session was over. I can understand the inturctors point of view, 22 min is plenty long enough to be bouncing around in the passenger seat of a students car. The biggest problem with having longer run groups, is that there is not enough time with the shut down at lunch. Even 8 extra minutes per group 1 & 2 equals an extra hour of track time needed.

Jonathan

[breakaway500]

I see how NEQ does it...they have 3 run groups. They space 6 sessions in the same 180 minute between 9 and 12 and get 30 minute sessions,where 4 run groups requires 22 minute run groups...hmm.
Does COM need 4 run groups? I really don't know...

Passing on the warm up laps would be nice in the ADVANCED run groups..and done like all other passing with a point by, it works fine. It really breaks up bottle necks before they become a chain of cars. It works well at NEQ events..so why not COM?

Just bouncing this stuff around,not trying to start trouble..

[boltonite]

The biggest cause of the bottleneck is cars being released together at the start of a session. Unless you happen to be near the front you will be in a train regardless of whether passing is allowed on the out lap or not.

You cannot compare WGI to NHMS -- the shear amount of time to clear a big track like WGI makes longer sessions (and fewer run groups) not only possible but more desirable. When you look at turnout for students and licensed drivers for NHMS it becomes very difficult to have fewer than 4 groups at that track.

Having licensed drivers (and the TT practices) grouped by lap times rather than displacement or car class would do more to reduce traffic jams than longer sessions, imo.

I think 30 min sessions would be fine, just find more time in the schedule (pay extra to keep the track hot during lunch?).
FF

[breakaway500]

I agree,the bottleneck starts right at the beginning,unless every car gridded in front of you is faster,or warms up as fast. Solution: outlap passing. How many times on an outlap have you come upon a group of cars already bunched up? If the line is three to five cars deep,and some are cars waiting to pass as well,it can mean 2-3 laps before you are clear. Why not allow a pass? Even at NHMS allowing cars to pass on the out lap(s) would help spread things out faster. And don't forget..there is only 18 minutes left...

[DanB]

I am not advocating shortening student run groups..merely making advanced run groups a little longer. 8 minutes longer.

Where does this additional 8 minutes come from?!
Multiply 8 minutes by the total number of stints for run groups 0, 1, and 2.

I'll restate my point that the advanced groups should not be getting more track time than the student groups. If you manage to "magic" an additional hour to an hour and a half of track time in the driver school day, it should be EQUALLY apportioned to the student and advanced run groups, but it's not clear to me that there is any "free" time out there waiting to be discovered!