hey thanks. Ya i love the apr tuned stuff. they are a great company. Now for the helmet i have my motorcycle helmet. i believe thats fine to use. now say i dont change anything back to stock and leave all my mods as i listed what class would i be in so i know what to tell them in new hampshire. and if i got back to stock mode then what class would i be in.
thanks for everything
Kevin
Cant wait to run my car legally..street racing is getting too dangerous
Classification
Moderators: Boondocker850, blindsidefive0
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therooster
- Fast Lapper
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:41 pm
"I'm not the expert, but I would say that (1) with boost control, (3), and (4) would put you in SPB. SPB requires roll bar, harnesses, and driving suit."
As a former Chief Steward I agree with this statement. Basically any motor mod involving a turbo will put you in SP, including a chip that modifies boost at any level as it is too hard to figure out how the chip modifies the CPU.
"If the fenders are flared, that is an automatic jump to PB." This interpretation I have always disagreed with due to what I percieve as inconsistensies in the rules. SP is a rules structure that limits what you can not do, as in mods are allowed as long as the rules do not restrict them. If it say you can then you can (given the restrictions).
The SP rule XI.10 reads :
"10. Any aerodynamic device may be added as long as they are fixed and immovable." Which in the SP context means ANY. In my reading, if you can argue your fender flares are "aerodynamic" as opposed to just space for tires then they should be considered for SP.
In MY opinion SP rule XI 8 and 9 read does not help clarify.
"8. Tires must be DOT approved..... Wheel type and size is optional provided the tread fits within the stock fender configurations measured by a vertical line dropped down from the fender lip...
9. External body modifications to fender wells are not allowed although rolling of the inner fender lip and enlarging or removal of the inner wheel well is allowed as long as stock outer appearance is retained."
For some cars the is significant differences in "stock fender configurations" between trim levels. The VW Rabbit and GTi come to mind as each seem similar but sometimes can not be distinquished by VIN. Further given the SP rules how can you determine what is "stock" on older vehicles. Do you include dealer installed items on cars such as mid 80's RX 7's? or even modified "tuner" cars as most have some sort of fender flares that did not come "stock" on the base model car. How do you define a modified BMW M3? Does it include the early 2000's "V8" racing models? Can you add ZR1 flares to a base C4 corvette and can you even tell/enforce these changes given the rules?
What is an "external fender well"? Is that the inner fender well next to the outer edge of the tire or the outer sheet metal of the body? Also how far can you go in "rolling of the inner fender lip and enlarging or removal of the inner wheel well" before it does not retain the outer appearance. I have "rolled" some fenders (some friends cars back in high school that needed help after accidents and no $ to do so) that could have significantly upgraded tire sizes (we ran Mickey Thompsons on some on these cars) yet looked pretty close to stock. Can you "tub" a car in the drag racing sense and still be in compliance with this rule? And if you can why only on the inner side and not the outer?
Finally, SP Rule XI.6 comes to mind "6. Composite panels may replace hood, fenders, bumpers, doors, and trunk lid as long as stock appearance is maintained..." I can think of a ton of ways to maintain stock appearance while replacing panels with composites. Increasing track, wheelbase, etc...now seems very easy if you can make it look stock, especially given the suspension mods available in SP.
I try to read strictly what the rules say, which most of the times means that I read them contrary to most peoples reading for SS/ST, but for SP the rules seem much more liberal then most people read them.
Chris
As a former Chief Steward I agree with this statement. Basically any motor mod involving a turbo will put you in SP, including a chip that modifies boost at any level as it is too hard to figure out how the chip modifies the CPU.
"If the fenders are flared, that is an automatic jump to PB." This interpretation I have always disagreed with due to what I percieve as inconsistensies in the rules. SP is a rules structure that limits what you can not do, as in mods are allowed as long as the rules do not restrict them. If it say you can then you can (given the restrictions).
The SP rule XI.10 reads :
"10. Any aerodynamic device may be added as long as they are fixed and immovable." Which in the SP context means ANY. In my reading, if you can argue your fender flares are "aerodynamic" as opposed to just space for tires then they should be considered for SP.
In MY opinion SP rule XI 8 and 9 read does not help clarify.
"8. Tires must be DOT approved..... Wheel type and size is optional provided the tread fits within the stock fender configurations measured by a vertical line dropped down from the fender lip...
9. External body modifications to fender wells are not allowed although rolling of the inner fender lip and enlarging or removal of the inner wheel well is allowed as long as stock outer appearance is retained."
For some cars the is significant differences in "stock fender configurations" between trim levels. The VW Rabbit and GTi come to mind as each seem similar but sometimes can not be distinquished by VIN. Further given the SP rules how can you determine what is "stock" on older vehicles. Do you include dealer installed items on cars such as mid 80's RX 7's? or even modified "tuner" cars as most have some sort of fender flares that did not come "stock" on the base model car. How do you define a modified BMW M3? Does it include the early 2000's "V8" racing models? Can you add ZR1 flares to a base C4 corvette and can you even tell/enforce these changes given the rules?
What is an "external fender well"? Is that the inner fender well next to the outer edge of the tire or the outer sheet metal of the body? Also how far can you go in "rolling of the inner fender lip and enlarging or removal of the inner wheel well" before it does not retain the outer appearance. I have "rolled" some fenders (some friends cars back in high school that needed help after accidents and no $ to do so) that could have significantly upgraded tire sizes (we ran Mickey Thompsons on some on these cars) yet looked pretty close to stock. Can you "tub" a car in the drag racing sense and still be in compliance with this rule? And if you can why only on the inner side and not the outer?
Finally, SP Rule XI.6 comes to mind "6. Composite panels may replace hood, fenders, bumpers, doors, and trunk lid as long as stock appearance is maintained..." I can think of a ton of ways to maintain stock appearance while replacing panels with composites. Increasing track, wheelbase, etc...now seems very easy if you can make it look stock, especially given the suspension mods available in SP.
I try to read strictly what the rules say, which most of the times means that I read them contrary to most peoples reading for SS/ST, but for SP the rules seem much more liberal then most people read them.
Chris
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BlackBora
? Compete in Class
What you'll need the most is seat time.........
Don
Don
Re: ? Compete in Class
And don't forget the roll bar.Don P wrote:What you'll need the most is seat time.........
--Michael
ST4 Miata #176
Re: ? Compete in Class
Spend some time reading through the rule book. It should answer a bunch of the questions you have regarding required safety equipment in the various classes.Don P wrote:What you'll need the most is seat time.........
Don
Basically, if your car is classed as SPB, the requirements are:
- Roll bar or roll cage. Page 8 of the 2005 rulebook lists the minimum specs.
- A driving suit, minimum 1 layer.
- 5 or 6-point safety harnesses, for both you AND the instructor, mounted per the rule book's instructions.
If the car were ST legal, the only things you'd have to worry about are the helmet, 100% cotton long pants and long-sleeve shirt, and factory seatbelts. Again, please review the rulebook in case I have missed something.
As for the street racing, save it for the track. It is dangerous and illegal. We also check you license at each event, so if it gets pulled, you won't be able to run with us!
- Will
96 Miata #72 SC
PRA 4
PRA 4
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BlackBora
This has obviously been said before in the thread, but i just wanted it to be really clear. If you show up with the exact same setup as you are currently running you are technically not allowed to participate and they will turn you away.
If the carbon hood stays on and you run in SPB with increased boost from the APR unit - it will be a very expensive first event. Decent harnesses, an Autopower roll bar, a firesuit and entry fee will be over $1300.
If i signed up for an event months in advance, paid, drove up to NHIS wicked early in the morning, got super pumped up with excitement and they turned me away over a lightweight hood i would freak out and have a mental breakdown. It's like taking my crack away.....
i mean......
Good luck and welcome to the club.
-Paddy
If the carbon hood stays on and you run in SPB with increased boost from the APR unit - it will be a very expensive first event. Decent harnesses, an Autopower roll bar, a firesuit and entry fee will be over $1300.
If i signed up for an event months in advance, paid, drove up to NHIS wicked early in the morning, got super pumped up with excitement and they turned me away over a lightweight hood i would freak out and have a mental breakdown. It's like taking my crack away.....
i mean......Good luck and welcome to the club.
-Paddy
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BlackBora
hood will be coming off when i get to the track...will put oem one on...the chip will be set down to sotck mode...so i know they wont send me home..and i will be able to race in the st class i believe...so i will be good to go..anyways i have to pass the class first...oh ya..when do i get a number that i have to put on the side of my car..cause i want to get one that is magnetic.
Numbers are based on what's available and first come first serve. Contact the Registrar, I believe he has a list of numbers that are currently in use and migh be able to help you select one for your car. April is coming fast. The events at NHIS tend to subscribe fast. Be sure to sign up as soon as registration opens. And instructor will be assigned and may possibly contact you prior to the event.
It will be a busy day or two. You are in the class room and on the track. If possible, it is good to bring a friend along to help with little details. Make sure you have a tank of gas, proper clothing, (who knows what early April will be like), snacks and plenty to drink.
The car should have fresh brake fluid, good brake pads and tires. Leave all loose objects at home. Loose speaker enclosures, tools, spare tire, loose items in the console and glove box must be removed. Bring masking tape or duct tape, windshield cleaner, paper towels, quart of oil, some brake fluid, and tooth paste.(helps get the bugs off your teeth from smiling so much)
See you there.
It will be a busy day or two. You are in the class room and on the track. If possible, it is good to bring a friend along to help with little details. Make sure you have a tank of gas, proper clothing, (who knows what early April will be like), snacks and plenty to drink.
The car should have fresh brake fluid, good brake pads and tires. Leave all loose objects at home. Loose speaker enclosures, tools, spare tire, loose items in the console and glove box must be removed. Bring masking tape or duct tape, windshield cleaner, paper towels, quart of oil, some brake fluid, and tooth paste.(helps get the bugs off your teeth from smiling so much)
See you there.
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swinecanfly
- Fast Lapper
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- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:44 pm
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KC
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