Mustang Cobra rear suspension

DanB · Post by **DanB** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:07 pm

I haven't run a rear bar for a few years now. Getting rid of it made a pretty big difference in getting up the hill. I had gotten so used to going around corners at about a 7 degree slip angle, the car seemed really understeery with it removed, but I went quite a bit faster!

You might try just removing one of the end links next track event. Super-easy to disconnect and reconnect the sway bar that way.

The idea is to reduce rear lateral weight transfer and let the fronts react more of the roll. I don't see the point of softer springs/stiffer rear bar, the softer springs reduce rear roll stiffness, but the stiffer bar gives it back.

Stynger · Post by **Stynger** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am

DanDarcy wrote:

I have not heard of removing the rear sway bar. Does your Z have a rear sway bar Dan ? I have heard of going to softer springs with a stiffer rear bar.
I'm not sure what I'll do but that April NHIS will come up faster than we all think. I may need snow tires for that

Dan D'Arcy
Mustang #310 ST1

An easy test while at the track. Just undo one end of one of the rear sway bar links (tie wrap it to the bar) this will disable the rear bar for a test session.
Very common with turbo charged Miatas to run without a rear bar.

DanDarcy · Post by **DanDarcy** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:01 pm

I'll have to try it with out the rear swaybar, but how did Les find out I stole my car !!! Did Scott tell him. ( just kidding)
I won't do more than one thing at a time , that way i will be able to tell if each change makes any difference.

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:41 pm

Dan, as pointed out above, it seems like a diff. change with the same as offered gear ratio is the way to go. The Torsen T2R is the one. Sell your Miata and put it into the rear end, I just thought of some great jokes but I won't go there.

I disconnect my stock rear sway bar in the rain...and you know how well I do in the rain

If a diff. is not in the plans I would go with softer rear springs before I lost the bar...granted trying the bar is a much easier test. Softer springs in the rear will give the added benefit of rear weight transfer under acceleration. If we were on Corner Carvers I'm sure several dozen engineers would be throwing their slide rules at me right now...maybe you guys won't figure out that I'm full of sh.t . Anyways I think selling the Miata will cure all your woes.

Don P · Post by **Don P** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:46 am

Let's see if this subject has any more wind left.

Let's agree that Dan has two problems: 1. rotating the car through T3- T4, and loosing grip under acceleration out of the corner and also on the straight.

Lets limit the "fixes" to only the three areas we've discussed: 1. LS diff. 2. sway bars, 3. springs.

I believe there is agreement that Dan should install be best (legal) LS diff and that will improve grip/traction on the less loaded tire on corner launch as well as straight line acceleration.

On sway bars, the general rule is: to increase understeer use a stiffer frnt bar and weaker rear bar. To increase oversteer use a stiffer rear bar and a weaker frontbar. With Dan's rig already being extremely nose heavy (creating an understeer dynamic) he needs to create an oversteer dynamic which means bigger rear bar as compared to the front. (there are many references to this subject in any performance/handling text).

On the springs subject they do indeed effect roll (side to side) as well as f/r and r/f load transfer. With Dan's wheel spin characteristic he needs to transfer the load from accelerating more gradually to the rear tires so a softer rear spring would help. Think about a situation where there was no rear suspension travel, the load would instantaneously be transferred to the contact patch and overwhelm it.

So he's now managing roll and turn in/out with SBs, and acceleration with a new LS and springs (SBs have no effect on acceleration or braking)

The load transer in lbs side to side and f/r and r/f is always the same regardless of the springs and sway bars used (or not used). Basically what they do is determine the rate that the load transfers.

Best,

Don

rajito · Post by **rajito** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:56 am

offcamber09 wrote:Sell your Miata and put it into the rear end, I just thought of some great jokes but I won't go there.

I have nothing useful to say, but I just wanted to point out that this is some pretty funny shit

I hope I don't think of the above quote in the middle of, say, turn 2 at Mosport.

Raj

DanDarcy · Post by **DanDarcy** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:19 pm

Hi Don-- Thanks for your helpfull coments-- unlike some others comments

Did you get the e-mail I sent you ? ( i have been home from work since last Friday and won't be returning until next week-- hernia operation from forcing the mustang arround

)

Scott - you want me to put the Miata ito the rear end of the mustang ?

no comment on that one, but I am thinking of selling the Miata along with about 6 other cars I have just hanging arround.
I do plan on removing the rear end as soon as I am can and check out the posi unit. And I was going to try no rear swaybar but since you said you disconnect yours in the rain , I have second thoughs (did you ever get all the particles of the wall out off your tire beads ? #-o Be happy you didn't do that at Watkins -- They would be charging you. Jonathan had to even pay for speedy dry when he blew his motor at the Bus Stop.

Back to the Mustang-- the spings I have are Sportline by Eibach and are not racing springs but lowering street spring. I ride pretty soft now. I have been looking in to new tires -- does anybody have a suggestion?

Dan D'Arcy
Mustang #310 ST1 :dontknow:

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:58 pm

Dan, hope all is well with the surgery.

Time to step up to the plate with some real race tires. The Hoosiers are still the fastest for the Mustangs, but are completely unforgiving if you lock up the brakes...flat spot to the cords guaranteed. The Kumho 710s worked well for me for time trialing, but they do go away pretty quickly when faced with the bulk of a Mustang and extended laps. I went the whole season on 1 set and they still have lots of tread left. Ask Mike D. and he raves about them on the lighter E30 M3. How about dropping down to 17" rims ? Then you can use the 275/40r17 size f/r.

carhauler · Post by **carhauler** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:21 pm

Dan...I have the same problem with my '01 Bullitt. The car is now at Sean Hylands having a Torsen installed. Even with the 275/40/17 Hoosiers the car just won't bite exiting 3.

Maybe we should just do Turn 3

in third!

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:07 pm

carhauler wrote:Dan...I have the same problem with my '01 Bullitt. The car is now at Sean Hylands having a Torsen installed. Even with the 275/40/17 Hoosiers the car just won't bite exiting 3.

Maybe we should just do Turn 3 in third!

Carhauker, did you opt for the t2r or just the t2? I bought my t2r from Reider Gears and had a local Ford tech do it on my lift- I had everything gutted for him. It cost me $50 and a Pizza for the labor. The only tricky part was setting the pinion depth- which Ford has a special tool that makes it foolproof. The diff has been flawless. Now I spin both tires going up 3.
Isn't Hyland in Canada ?

DanDarcy · Post by **DanDarcy** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:19 pm

Hi Carhauler

You don't live too far from me. Who is Sean Hylands and where is he located ? What do you have for h.p. ? I know the Mach 1 has 305 like mine. If you get a chance to weigh your car at NHIS ,do so, it is surprising the front weight bias you have although I've heard the newer Mustangs aren't quite as bad. I also notice you have aMBZ 6.3 , I have a 1993 500E built by Porsche which is much faster than my Mustang but is for sale if you would like one let me know. It is in great shape but has high miles.
Is the Torsen legal in ST1 ? I know a locker is not . Ford does offer a Torsen for the 8.8" through their Motorsports division, but I don't think it is the "r" model. Does anyone know is the '96 Cobra 28 spline or 31 spline axles ?
Scott , I went and bought a set of Hoosiers 275/18 S04s from tire rack on sale for $159- each. We'll see if they help. Plus I bought some racing brake pads instead of the stock Brembos. I'm getting a bit more serious about this stuff

Don : I got your e-mail , Thank you very much. I'm not sure how much I can do before April, but I did get new tires and brake pads, and I hope to do sopmething with the rear end before Than. Thanks again

I have another question . The Cobra must rum ST1 stock but can a 2003 Mustang Mach 1 run SSGT ? It is the exact same drive train and horse power but is not an SVT car .

MiataSteve · Post by **MiataSteve** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:24 pm

Sean Hyland.....Isn't he one of the guys on "Sports Car Revolution" on SpeedTV. http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:18 pm

MiataSteve wrote:Sean Hyland.....Isn't he one of the guys on "Sports Car Revolution" on SpeedTV. http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/

Yeah, he's big-time if it's the same guy. I didn't think he was at all local though.

Dan- that's a smoking deal on the Hoosiers. They must be blowing them out to make room for the so5. I think we concluded that the torsion IS leagal in ST1 if you run a stock ratio. Also if you can backdate, the ratios should include 3.55 ('80s era Saleen Mustang) and 3.73 ('80s era SVO). You don't need those 4.11s.
I love the fact that the Mustang guys are stepping up to the plate. Tom building the killer 1st gen Mustang track car, Dan dropping the cheeze and wine motif and grabbing a beer and some stale pretzels, a couple of '03 Cobra guys that are going to turn some heads. Now we just need to strap a supercharger on Craig's car and we can bring some order to the COM racing world. \:D/

DanDarcy · Post by **DanDarcy** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:06 pm

Scott --- Cheeze and wine will still be available at my trailer ---- plus on those cold days at LRP and maybe this coming April at NHIS I also have HEAT in my trailer to go with the cheeze and wine !!

What do you think --- should all the Mustang guys park together ? We could do a photo like the Miata guys did with all our cars together.

How quick do those Hoosiers S04 wear ? Should I buy a second set if they still have them for $159- ? The Perelli P Zeros have lasted me two years (7 two day events)

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:10 am

DanDarcy wrote:Scott --- Cheeze and wine will still be available at my trailer ---- plus on those cold days at LRP and maybe this coming April at NHIS I also have HEAT in my trailer to go with the cheeze and wine !!

What do you think --- should all the Mustang guys park together ? We could do a photo like the Miata guys did with all our cars together.

How quick do those Hoosiers S04 wear ? Should I buy a second set if they still have them for $159- ? The Perelli P Zeros have lasted me two years (7 two day events)

If you are going to run more than 5 events than you will most likely need 2 sets...the wildcard is if you tend to brake like me and flat-spot tires the Hoosiers are unforgiving. Is your ABS still connected ? Even with my poor braking set-up in the Mustang, I would not want ABS- but that subject has been covered elsewhere on this forum.

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