Point By rules

[cfossum]

The COM rule does NOT require a point-bye before passing except that students need to follow the rules of the chief instructor. Read the rule.

Raj

Continue reading the rule:
"It is always the responsibility of the passing driver to execute a safe pass within the defined passing zone. Should a
driver execute a pass without having received a point-by and cause what is deemed by the Stewards as an unsafe
situation, proper disciplinary actions will be taken."

The wording of this rule was debated at great length years ago when Joe Traut was president. At the time the chief instructor, Dean Clark, put in place the passing rule for everyone. A petition drive to overturn the rule led by me garnered over 50 signatures on a time trial day and the rule was written as in the paragraph above. The essence is that safe passing is the responsibility of the overtaking car but point-by is not required. I believe in COM everyone should pause and look for a point by before proceeding carefully if none is forthcoming. Student groups are further constrained on class day by the Chief Instructor's directions and by the instructor aboard.

Let's just assume that for the rest of this year, I'll most likely view a pass without a point-by as an unsafe situation.
-Carl

[mossaidis]

Well, I guess that settles that.

We need to talk to all drivers about:

rearward awareness and PBs

Mickey

[chaos4NH]

There we a number of unsafe, late passes going into Turn 1 this past event. Violators will lose valuable track time because Control will black flag unsafe passes.

[breakaway500]

I had one of those late passes. The driver 2 cars in front of me slowed substantially down after the start/finish line and pointed the first car by. He then pointed me by and stayed quite off line. I decided it was better for me to pass and get out of their way rather than slow down and await their next move.I wasn't sure if they had a mechanical problem or what.I figured it was safer for me to take the point/pass rather than almost stop on track awaiting their next move.
Wrong by the book,but it felt right at the time. I took the best way around a potential problem in my mind.That was my first rolled and pointed black flag.(which I missed for two laps) I'm still learning.

[chaos4NH]

I had one of those late passes. The driver 2 cars in front of me slowed substantially down after the start/finish line and pointed the first car by. He then pointed me by and stayed quite off line. I decided it was better for me to pass and get out of their way rather than slow down and await their next move.I wasn't sure if they had a mechanical problem or what.I figured it was safer for me to take the point/pass rather than almost stop on track awaiting their next move.
Wrong by the book,but it felt right at the time. I took the best way around a potential problem in my mind.That was my first rolled and pointed black flag.(which I missed for two laps) I'm still learning.

All that and you were still not the fastest FWD? (You are getting closer!)

[breakaway500]

My cars FWD?? Damn! I've been putting the good tires on the back.

[MMiskoe]

I'm glad Bruce 'pointed' out how that rule is written. It seems to have had its interpertation evolve over time. For those who were around when PB's were introduced, it caused quite a stir. Ultimately I believe it drove away some members who did not like the way it changed the flow of a session w/ traffic.

What Bruce did not let on, is that the club ran for many many years w/o the need for PB's. Were there more incidents? Not from passing. So is it any safer? Not really.

A PB can cause just as many problems as not using them. Take this example (which I have seen happen): lead driver does not give a point on the front straight. Driver #2 who has a run on driver #1 checks up. What happens to driver #3 who can't see what is going on in front? Brake lights on a straight away are never a good thing.

The PB needs to be given prior to the exit of the corner if it is going to allow a car to utilize its higher corner speed to make the pass. All too often the PB is given after the exit of the corner which is too late.

Does the track really care how it is that the club manages the driving on track?

I'm glad someone has questioned this.

Matt

[agrabau]

Matt, I've done several motorcycle track days that allow open passing. I was passed in the bowl on the inside, my knee down and only about 12 inches of pavement to the inside of me.. someone made use of it. If they allow that I can't imagine that they'd take issue with a well organized club like COM.

I agree with you that I think the time to pass is on corner exit, not on the straight, for example out of turn 2b. I want 2 hands on the wheel coming out of turn 2b not one out the window.

[jrottn]

Open track at NHMS is a pass anwhere/anytime deal
I have seen 3-wide in the bowl with no issues
What is dangerous is when 1 person thinks PBs are required and the next guy does not

[jlwhorf]

IMO The major problem with the NHMS events is that the car counts are too high for the run groups. At the July event, I was the first one the track, and I caught people who had pitted out on my first lap. In the 8 years I have been running with COM, the philosophy has always been, the profit from NHMS pays for the losses at the away events. It is good for the away crowd, but makes it frustrating for the home bunch. Maybe it is time to think about cutting some of the away losses, and cap the run groups at NHMS.

Jonathan

[brucesallen]

IMO The major problem with the NHMS events is that the car counts are too high for the run groups. At the July event, I was the first one the track, and I caught people who had pitted out on my first lap. In the 8 years I have been running with COM, the philosophy has always been, the profit from NHMS pays for the losses at the away events. It is good for the away crowd, but makes it frustrating for the home bunch. Maybe it is time to think about cutting some of the away losses, and cap the run groups at NHMS.

Jonathan

I run in the instructor group and it seems to me that only Group One is the crowded one. True? If so maybe we can alleviate that by putting some in the instructor group or by other means.

[DanDarcy]

Group One at the July event was a parking lot for the first session !! It got a little better as the day went on but not much. I agree with Jonathan that some of the crowding at NHMS has to be elimanated. Next Year we will not have all the away events that have run a heavy losses in the past, so lets see if we can get group one under control.

I too think a point by should be given before the straight. Serveral times I have come onto the front straight and had to brake hard and wait for a PB and get it just before turn one which I can not accomplish safely. I need the momentum coming onto the straight in order to pass, my car does not have as much horse power as most people think it has.

[cuda6666]

my car does not have as much horse power as most people think it has.

I believe you, Dan

[brucesallen]

Raj

Continue reading the rule:
"It is always the responsibility of the passing driver to execute a safe pass within the defined passing zone. Should a
driver execute a pass without having received a point-by and cause what is deemed by the Stewards as an unsafe
situation, proper disciplinary actions will be taken."

The wording of this rule was debated at great length years ago when Joe Traut was president. At the time the chief instructor, Dean Clark, put in place the passing rule for everyone. A petition drive to overturn the rule led by me garnered over 50 signatures on a time trial day and the rule was written as in the paragraph above. The essence is that safe passing is the responsibility of the overtaking car but point-by is not required. I believe in COM everyone should pause and look for a point by before proceeding carefully if none is forthcoming. Student groups are further constrained on class day by the Chief Instructor's directions and by the instructor aboard.

Let's just assume that for the rest of this year, I'll most likely view a pass without a point-by as an unsafe situation.
-Carl

Well, that is up to the stewards:

"Should a driver execute a pass without having received a point-by and cause what is deemed by the Stewards as an unsafe
situation, proper disciplinary actions will be taken."

When this rule was written, the intent was that if someone passes with or without a point-bye and causes an accident, the stewards would review the pass to see if the paser was at fault.

But then, of course:

"J. The Chief Instructor may temporarily suspend or permanently revoke the COMSCC license of any member whose
driving or on-track behavior is considered a significant safety risk. License suspensions and removals may be appealed
in writing to the Board of Directors."

[chaos4NH]

Well, that is up to the stewards:

"Should a driver execute a pass without having received a point-by and cause what is deemed by the Stewards as an unsafe
situation, proper disciplinary actions will be taken."

When this rule was written, the intent was that if someone passes with or without a point-bye and causes an accident, the stewards would review the pass to see if the paser was at fault.

But then, of course:

"J. The Chief Instructor may temporarily suspend or permanently revoke the COMSCC license of any member whose
driving or on-track behavior is considered a significant safety risk. License suspensions and removals may be appealed
in writing to the Board of Directors."

Due to lack of sophistcated replays from 1,001 different angles, ala NASCAR, let's make this easy on the stewards and NOT have unsafe passes, with the point by rule the focus of your effforts to reduce incidents. I am for the point by rule.
On Oct 25 I ran twice with the rookies in Gp4, once in the early group and later in their last group. The instructors are to be complemented on the progress of these students. Most notable to me was the mirror awareness and great POINT BYs!
Viva la point by. Just MHO.