Event results and Insurance

[StephanAlfa]

Race tracks are for race cars. Anyone who takes their car on a race track should be financially and mentally prepared to lose that car, without expecting compensation (i.e. insurance coverage).
Why do you think that I keep on puttzing with a purpose built race car?
Jonathan

As I was told by first COM instructor, Chris, at MT: "If you're not ready to push your car off a cliff, you should NOT be taking it to the track." That may be an oversimplifcation, yet folks that have been in this business long enough know that there are crazies out there - those that are having an "off" day and still choose to push it 9/10ths OR others that *think* they can do the impossible.

That is true Mossaidis.
But Jonathan you forgot what the spirit and the fabric of this club was and is all about... bring your car to the track: street or otherwise... just a reminder. Whether you insure it or not is another matter thus this forum chat.

[mossaidis]

That is true Mossaidis.
But Jonathan you forgot what the spirit and the fabric of this club was and is all about... bring your car to the track: street or otherwise... just a reminder. Whether you insure it or not is another matter thus this forum chat.

Too clarify, I think COM combines the best in speed, fun and safety. In my four short years with COM, I have never witnessed or heard of a car-to-car track incident. Though, I have seen drivers get all worked up thinkin this is some sort of formula race and try to do the impossibe (myself included on turn 2 of MT). Thanks that we have been seperated from the pack or doing TT when such events happen. I can't help but think of my first COM event at MT back in 2005 - an race prepped E30 tried to "right" the car after placing his tires on the grass twice. "What?" he lost it twice and still tried to correct? - "In a spin, two feet in!" instead he smacked it into the wall on one of the back straights.

Com is the best thing between cheap auto-Xing and road racing. I would like for me to keep it that way - hell knows I push it.

Ok, I am off my soap box. I feel better.

[nhsilversti]

Race tracks are for race cars. Anyone who takes their car on a race track should be financially and mentally prepared to lose that car, without expecting compensation (i.e. insurance coverage).

Why do you think that I keep on puttzing with a purpose built race car?

Jonathan

because you dont want to spend the money for the proper insurance that WILL cover you on the track 97% of the time? the last 3% is during the 3 officialy timed laps which you would not be covered for.

if i can get a policy to cover $50,000 or more, why wouldnt i?

[jlwhorf]

Race tracks are for race cars. Anyone who takes their car on a race track should be financially and mentally prepared to lose that car, without expecting compensation (i.e. insurance coverage).

Why do you think that I keep on puttzing with a purpose built race car?

Jonathan

because you dont want to spend the money for the proper insurance that WILL cover you on the track 97% of the time? the last 3% is during the 3 officialy timed laps which you would not be covered for.

if i can get a policy to cover $50,000 or more, why wouldnt i?

How would the insurance company determine whether an incident occured during or not during the 3 timed laps? If someone wreaked their $50K car during time trials, what would stop them from saying if happened during a practice session? This would go back to what Raj was saying about insurance companies not trusting policy holders. I know there are policies that cover high value vintage racers, but most of those guys could afford to fix those car anyway.

The primary reason I like purpose built race cars, is that their only value is on the race track.

[Mick]

Article in the NY Times, published just last week
Car Insurance May Not Cover You at the Track

[rajito]

Article in the NY Times, published just last week
Car Insurance May Not Cover You at the Track

Welcome to page 3.

Raj

[WillM]

I have no personal experience with the program, but if I were concerned about my street car at a COM event, I would purchase track-specific insurance. MotorsportsReg seems to have a good offering:
http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx

Wrecking your car on the track and claiming to your insurance provider that it was wrecked on the road is insurance fraud. If your insurance covers non-competitive track time but excludes timed laps and you have a wreck during a timed lap but claim to your insurance company that the wreck occurred during non-timed competition, than that too is fraud.

How will the insurance company know? They may ask the track and event organizers. At least one of these two organizations will know the truth, and neither will involve themselves in defrauding an insurance company.

Insurance companies hold a lot of power and push the limits. They have lawyers, time, lobbyists, and money. Individuals have little chance against them, and I'd bet 99.9% cannot be bothered to fight back. It may or may not be in the insurance company's right to adjust and/or cancel policies at their will, but they know that their customers are at their mercy. Situations like these are legitimate reasons for consumer advocate and special interest groups. I have not really looked into the work SEMA does, but maybe I should.

[Mick]

Article in the NY Times, published just last week
Car Insurance May Not Cover You at the Track

Welcome to page 3.

Raj

I don't read posts that are more than 1 line.

[chaos4NH]

Raj and I speak from experience and we are both still paying. We were, as they say, "self insured".
Don't drive you car on the track if you need it to go to work the next day!

[nhsilversti]

the info i got about the track coverage says VERY clearly what is needed to have the claim accepted. it goes on to say chief of event, 2 corner workers and a track owner MUST fill out contact info along with witness statements.

while im sure you could screw the system, that goes right along with everything in life. the honest will not and the greedy/dishonest will.


my point was why not insure, with proper insurance, your street car that is driven on the street/track or for that matter a track only car.

to be completely honest i still owe 13k on the car but i rarely drive it on the street. yet, i have to keep full coverage on a car that is rarely driven on the street.

the quote i got of $1900/year with 10% deduct. for 60k coverage at the track seems more than reasonable considering i still owe the bank. keep in mind it cover more than just on track stuff.

[paultg]

Ted, to answer your question for my situation:
1. I don't think it matters if I have track insurance.

I keep insurance on the car because I use it as a daily driver (the only reason). The insurance if for coverage if someone hits me and is not insured, if I hit someone else, etc. It isn't even about the car, it is about my life, my property, etc.

I had an accident on the street, not my fault. I went through insurance. They caught wind of the events because of the modifications to the car, used google, and threatened to drop me as a customer because of my hobby.

Paul, the BOD kicked this around for a bit, and it was brought to our attention that nearly every organization posts their results on a public available web site or forum.
I do not see how you are going to avoid that.

I'm a bit disappointed to hear this to be honest. Just because other clubs don't do it doesn't mean it is something to not consider; however I am not up to speed so to speak with what the clubs insurance policies require either, I wouldn't expect event results to be something required, but who knows.

I know clubs who require member log in to see results, or distribute results via an email list (or monthly news letter); or just post car numbers w/o names for the results. It really isn't complicated to provide less info; most clubs don't even do the TT or results like COM (that I know of).

Again though, my situation is few and far between, if my accident hadn't happened and/or my seats and belts were stock, I wouldn't be in this situation.

As someone else mentioned, if I decide to continue with this hobby with COM, time trial is out; unless I can just register w/o my full name, or opt out of being part of the official results. It sucks, cause that rules out away events for the most part. I just can't risk loosing insurance coverage, I have my wife to consider as well as she is on the policy too.

I do enjoy COM and the members of the club, so if I do stick with it, no issues with them at all.

Paul G.

[paultg]

One other thing;
If you think for a minute that participating in day 1 of a 2 day event means you are covered you are insane.

The policies are written very well now; it doesn't matter if the event is timed or not. You are in the facility using your car on the track = no coverage.

I suggest anyone who thinks they are covered for these types of events because they may not be timed should think again; cause I doubt it, and I wouldn't even make the phone call.

As others have suggested, if you need insurance in order to make you feel comfortable using your car at events (any type), you shouldn't be doing any events.

Paul G.

[paultg]

Insurance companies hold a lot of power and push the limits. They have lawyers, time, lobbyists, and money. Individuals have little chance against them, and I'd bet 99.9% cannot be bothered to fight back. It may or may not be in the insurance company's right to adjust and/or cancel policies at their will, but they know that their customers are at their mercy. Situations like these are legitimate reasons for consumer advocate and special interest groups. I have not really looked into the work SEMA does, but maybe I should.

They sure do. They can adjust rates based on your age, your gender, your location, your marital status, the list goes on and on...

I highly doubt there is anything that can be done about how I feel; in the insurance companies eyes these events put me into a "higher risk" category; and they control/make all the rules.

Since the insurance rates all stem around satistics; one would think you could prove that these events are less risky than say driving to work every day; but who the hell is going to want to march forward with that battle..

I wonder if they deny people who jump out of planes for fun, or white water raft, rock climb, etc..

Paul G.

[rajito]

Paul, if you are THAT much concerned about it, you don't have to do the time trials. It's only 3 laps.

Raj

[breakaway500]

Paul,just take your plates off the car while on track. It becomes an unregistered,uninsured vehicle as soon as you remove the registration plates. Even with photographs of you on track,there will be no proof positive what car you drove.

Unless they start to send agents to each event to check VINs.