Event results and Insurance

[paultg]

Hi folks; I am in a situation that came about from crash pictures of my car taken by my insurance company, and then an internet search where they found event results such as the ones posted on this website. The crash happened on public roads and I was 100% not at fault, had nothing to do with events.

I got a letter from my insurance company a few days ago and thought it would be good for others to know about. The letter pretty much sums up a conversation between myself and my insurance company about the policy and their findings; about the events I have done in the past; and identifies the areas in the policy that exclude coverage (which I knew about and we discussed prior to getting the letter) and closes with the insurance company pretty much telling me if I continue to participate in events (autox, etc.) they may not be able to continue coverage.

I never expected coverage for an incident at an event, have a car I own outright to use for events if I choose to do so, and only insure it because I drive on public streets (in NH I am not required to have coverage on the vehicle).

So it seems to me the times are yet again changing. Not only will they exclude coverage for these types of events, they can decide not to coverage you at all if they feel like it.

I have let Will and Sam know about this, but felt it would be good to tell the entire group. I really think the club should consider not posting the results on the website at all, or at a minimum use car numbers only.

Just an FYI..

If anyone would like to see/read the letter, e-mail or pm me and I can send it.

[962porsche]

with my shop i deal with car insurance companys all day long on clams . that has been going on for years its not new . and i hate to say it. peaple don't read there policy ! i have the Hartford on 3 of the 5 cars on the road . out of that 3 there is only one that can go on the track in a timed event . why becouse it only has liability on it . not full coverage . the cars that have full coverage i can only do drivers ed . not timed events. thats racing !

[breakaway500]

Insurance companies SUCK.

Now that I got that out of the way, I think not posting results for a private club activity held at a private facility because of a potential insurance dispute over a vehicle being used for a non covered activity would be a HUGE mistake.

They already exclude racing activities right in their policies!

I have never allowed them to dictate policy in my repair facility and I surely don't want them messing with my personal life.

They told me during one of their site reviews to get rid of my dog,which I kept at the shop during the day. Instead I told them to shove it. I cancelled my policies and found a different carrier (out of state...)

If we allow the O-mighty insurance companies to regulate our behavior out of fear of repercussion, they have won.

If you fear they may use pictures off the internet of your car on track,I would suggest removing your registration plates from the vehicle while on track. Unless they start sending representatives to verify VIN numbers of members cars,there is no way for them to prove the black Miata you were using that day was the same one they insure for use on public roads.

Don't let the bastards push you around.

[Mick]

It's bummer that they're giving you the runaround. But they're logic makes no sense.

For instance: Does that mean if they find a picture of you on Facebook drinking a beer they can drop you for drunk driving?

[subsonic]

It's bummer that they're giving you the runaround. But they're logic makes no sense.

For instance: Does that mean if they find a picture of you on Facebook drinking a beer they can drop you for drunk driving?

Good point - If they keep having their way, then eventually the answer will be 'yes'.

[cuda6666]

Insurance ends up being a ripoff anyway. It's cheaper just to hire a guy from Lowell in the event of a law suite

[962porsche]

i'm not condoning the insurance industry becouse most insurance companies suck . most insurance co. look at it this way . you the car owner bangs up your car on the track and you full coverage on that car . drive your car home to work that monday then call your insurance co. and tell them my car got hit in the parking lot and put in a clame . now would this be fair to the insurance co.s ??? this is why most common insurance co's dont cover you or will drop you and can . if they find out . i know it sucks but this is why ? and for every peason that would never do somthing like that there are alot that would . this came right out of the mouth of a higher up with progressive in CT. i have hade this person as a best frend for 30 plus years . O - and he auto crosses ? some insurance co"s you dont want . progressive , all state , safe co. , the hartford , state farm , if you have full croverage they can drop you if they find out your racing your car . LOOK AT YOUR POLICY ! its a business there in it to make MONEY . so look at what YOU want to buy !! most peaple buy insurance on price only . thay call around ask how mush and thats it . never talk about what they want or need for coverage . in my shop there is a 150k plus ferrari the owner only has 125k of coverage on it with a 5000 dollar deducible . he got a policy 19 . he needs an 19a . even thow he thought he had a 1000 dollar deducible and proper coverage . tomarrow when he comes to pick up his car he has to sted up with an other 4000 grand . hes pist off becouse his insurance co. never told him that . this is not the first time nor will it be the last . peaple don't read there policy !

[ctkag]

With regards to the results posting, I've heard that posting the results in another format may defeat a search. Possibly as an image file? I know that a Google search under my name shows the COM results.

At this point, I could take the car off the road for good and not be hurt by it too much, presuming I continue competing with it. However, should I decide to retire the car and do something else, I wouldn't want my insurability compromised because I happened to have used it in the past. Tough situations.

[962porsche]

if you have liabilitty only on your car you cant be dropped ! one other thing to think about . my car trailer was swiped from an empty lot behined my shop 2 weeks before the last NH. track date . in the trailer i hade my scales with ramps , 2 sets of tires v710s and rain tires . camber carter gauge .nitrogen tanks and so on . becouse it was parked off my land and not hooked to my tow vehicle . my shop ins. and auto ins.would not cover the lose . some thing to think about when you drop your trailer and go for dinner or home from one race week end too an other .if your leaving you trailer at a track ?

[paultg]

With regards to the results posting, I've heard that posting the results in another format may defeat a search. Possibly as an image file? I know that a Google search under my name shows the COM results.

At this point, I could take the car off the road for good and not be hurt by it too much, presuming I continue competing with it. However, should I decide to retire the car and do something else, I wouldn't want my insurability compromised because I happened to have used it in the past. Tough situations.

Thank you Keith, this is exactly what my point was, and believe me I am all about not getting pushed around. However I am not upset by my situation, by COM posting the results, or that I have participated, and I have read and understand my policy. I don't need to insure the car, I choose to do so. The insurance companies are only acting because folks do take advantage unfortunately.

I could have told them it wasn't using my Miata on the track, but I wasn't going to lie, and I know what the policy says. They even mentioned during the conversation that they are familiar with BMW and another car club; just not this one.

What I didn't think would happen is they would consider dropping me anyway (which I think can eventually turn into difficulty getting insurance, they ask if you have been terminated for any reason, etc.).

I just feel a better means of communicating the results is available (or simply not using the drivers names is real easy). Some clubs have log-in access only, or only distribute through email, etc. I just can't stand it when you pretty much provide the information to be used against you, seems sort of silly right?

If I decide to autox or whatever again, I won't use my full name to register; it just isn't worth the trouble (or potential trouble). If they won't let me register, then so be it. I am not in this to be competitive, it is for fun, I could care less about overall standings, etc. so really have no interest in them being posted in a easily accessible area.

Paul G.

[paultg]

if you have liabilitty only on your car you cant be dropped!

I appreciate your comments, but I don't think this is true.

I specifically went into my policy to look at the grounds for termination, and it is written very well. Again, I am not a lawyer, but I could tell it was written in a manner to keep the possibilities open. It didn't differ between types of coverage either, this was in General Provisions.

Here is what it says under General Provisions / Termination
"After the Policy is in effect for 60 days, or if this is a renewal or continuation policy, we will cancel only:
a. For nonpayment of premium; or
b. If your driver's license or that of:
(1) Any driver who lives with you; or
(2) Any driver who customarily uses your covered auto;
has been suspended or revoked. This must have occurred:
(1) During the policy period; or
(2) Since the last anniversary of the original effective date if the policy period is other than 1 year; or
c. If the policy was obtained through material misrepresentation.

I first read this and thought they couldn't terminate me or decide not to renew me; but that last item "c" I am unsure of. That is sort of "open" if you ask me.

Paul G.

[JackFFR1846]

Feel free to search around NASIOC under my screen name (same name everywhere) for my little "issue" 2 years ago. In short, I asked my umbrella liability insurance company what liability coverage I had while in my unregistered, uninsured racecar. Their answer.....You're cancelled.

I asked if I could use my registered, insured street car. They said "we no longer will insure your street car".

My agent was great and found a company who was well aware of my track activities, racecar and instructor status. It took a good 3 months to find one. All of $3 a year more than I was paying before. My coverage is based in Mass.

I also seem to remember hearing that the piece of evidence used in Rick Long's ordeal was the fact that he was awarded points in the time trial.

I personally don't care about property dammage. I take that risk myself. I worry more about liability and understand the club policy (and BMW CCA's and SCDA's).

jack

[962porsche]

paultg . what insurance co. do you have ? not all insurance co's are the same but every one i know will not drop you if you only have liability . this is why i say don't shop for price when you buy insurance .you can't put in a claim on your car its not insured for that . it only covers you for the other persons car you hit and gets damaged . if your not happy with your carrier then fire them and get an other . always look at buying insurance as business .

[chaos4NH]

if you have liabilitty only on your car you cant be dropped ! one other thing to think about . my car trailer was swiped from an empty lot behined my shop 2 weeks before the last NH. track date . in the trailer i hade my scales with ramps , 2 sets of tires v710s and rain tires . camber carter gauge .nitrogen tanks and so on . becouse it was parked off my land and not hooked to my tow vehicle . my shop ins. and auto ins.would not cover the lose . some thing to think about when you drop your trailer and go for dinner or home from one race week end too an other .if your leaving you trailer at a track ?

Hell, they didn't cover my trailer and it WAS attached to my truck (they took the truck too). My truck insurance covered anything automotive that was in the trailer and my homeowners covered most everything else on the"theft away from Home" clause. However, the trailer it self was not covered. My new one has a stand alone comprhensive policy!

[962porsche]

this is what i was saying . all insurance is not the same . my shop keepers ins. only covers things on my land . and the way my tow vehicle and trailer was . it only covers it as a package hooked together . i knew this at the time but the land in back of my shop is fenced in . the peace of crap that took the trailer pulled the fence down . and my home owners ins. does not cover my shop at all . and i thought the only thing that some one would take would be the wheels off the trailer not the hole thing .