Interesting website I found while perusing

[breakaway500]

http://www.euroformulaford.com/

Check out the race physics and racing line sections.

Very good reading although a bit mathematical at times.

I also enjoyed the quotes section

Seem like a nice bunch!

Those formula cars are alluring...

[enjoythemusic]

..

[enjoythemusic]

AWESOME FIND!!!! Thanks for posting!

Those formula cars are alluring...

Umm, well... yes they are to the extent you look at the Ferrari, thank it for the fun time and sell it like as fast as you can before the economy takes a dump. Better still, a Formula car is so very EASY to work on and parts are dirt cheap (imo).

While not my best lap, here is a 'slow' 2:02 at WGI this past weekend in the Formula 2000 (see link below). Was expecting some rain/head wind and so geared 4th accordingly. This is why the engine is just bouncing off the rev limiter all the way down the back straight and 1/2 of the front straight (and cost me AT LEAST 1.5 seconds in slower lap time ). Was a GREAT weekend filled with awesome friends and LOTS of fun Besides, if just changing a gear saves me 1.5+ seconds, it takes no brains/talent to keep the hammer down in a straight line. Of course there ARE sections i need work on (isn't there ALWAYS work to be done?).

Best
Weekend
EVER!

Thank you Formula 2000, or as Mr. Blue Mustang said at a COMSCC event, "When Steven gets out of the car he looks like he just won the lottery." So VERY true, and makes it all too easy to break some club records by wide margins even from a relative newbie like me.

There are great books by Carroll Smith and many others. Check out the selection offered by www.pegasusautoracing.com as a starter. For those truly geeky (me me me) all we are really doing is playing with physics and trying to achieve the limits, which is basically complicated mathematical equations based on certain facts (and known adjustable variables) to achieve this goal. The 'trick' is finding the right set of numbers within the variables to achieve the fastest lap time while taking into account the track's condition, the weather, wind speed, density of the air, the altitude... etc.

VIDEOS of math at work including WGI, NHMS, and others:
www.enjoythetrack.com/video/

[breakaway500]

Excellent video.It all seems so effortless in the formula car.No dramatics.One turn flows into another. You make it seem so easy.
I will have to try on a formula car for fit.I'm a bit on the big side.
I have been researching them and they have a fascinating history.
There are so many chassis and drivetrain combinations.
A Ford or Mazda engine would be nice.I would love to find one with a Zetec drivetrain.
An interesting quest.

[TroyV]

Mark, if you buy a formula, I want dibbs on a discount price for your Atom.....say....an even trade for an 03 Cobra with 56k miles..

[breakaway500]

I was thinking of using the roof I cut off the Focus on the Atom and keep it as a rain car.



Not really.

They are now making a windshield an option on the new Atom3 though.

I think it looks hideous.




What's next?

[enjoythemusic]

Excellent video. It all seems so effortless in the formula car. No dramatics. One turn flows into another. You make it seem so easy.

<Blushing> A most humble thanks. LOTS of work on the car, my driving, the setup, etc and etc are the results you are seeing and STILL i got the final setup (4th gear) wrong. Being smooth is fast (imo) versus wrestling the car. Recall my first events in the 308GTS i would GORILLA GRIP the steering wheel, whereas nowadays am as gentle as possible to feel the car and what the tires are telling me. Also, it seems that time itself slows down when driving the formula car, In other words, when driving it does not SEEM as fast as it does when watching the video afterwards.

I will have to try on a formula car for fit. I'm a bit on the big side.
I have been researching them and they have a fascinating history.
There are so many chassis and drivetrain combinations.
A Ford or Mazda engine would be nice. I would love to find one with a Zetec drivetrain.

If you have a waist at most of around 38 and are at most 6.1 ft tall you should be fine with a F2000 with a chassis from 1999 on up. For larger folks who desire more ease in driving per se, the SCCA FE may be the choice (yet perhaps has no real future in upper-level events like feeder series F2000 Championship Series). Have never sat in a Formula Mazda, yet they look more roomy than an F2000. It might also depend if you want the ease of more tires under you and sequential shifting (FE) or a normal H-pattern clutch system where more skill is involved. Of course you might want to try a Formula Ford or even a Formula V, as they are inexpensive and if you do not like it, you sasre not into it for much $$$.

As for an FC with Zetec, plan on around $50k. A 1999 chassis on up can handle a Zetec conversion if it comes with a Pinto/Kent and those cars are around $24k on up nowadays depending on condition and other wizzy bits and spares package. My plan was to get a good known 1999 with plans to upgrade if the car was enjoyable. Needless to say, shw is a keeper and this winter there are plans... as want to be with the Pro guys next year.

An interesting quest.

The joy is in the journey...
.
.
.
.
... in attending as many events as you desire and driving around as many tracks as possible

Now go out there and get a formula car!!! Check out www.ApexSpeed.com and i know a guy with two FF cars for sale that are not listed on Apex.

Have been blessed by building a relationship with a great engineer, Glenn Phillips of GTP Motorsports. The car here was one of his pro racers' car. It was more $$$, yet we all know you WILL pay up front or 'in the end' so i choose Plan A. Someone 'upstairs' has truly been looking out for me <thank you>.

Once again, a most humble thanks for the compliment on the driving, with a mere four or so years of doing this (1.5 years racing) am FINALLY beginning to build a proper program to build and fine-tune skill/technique. Of course in the end what REALLY matters is that you...

[breakaway500]

I have never been a fan of VW's,(no offense to the VW lovers) so formula V is out. I also do not like Renaults. Just too many years of working on cars to fancy working on either a VW or Renault nowadays. I'm 6'2" with a 38 waist,so I may be right on the line.I suppose any car can be modded a bit to fit. I do fancy a sequential shifter and >8" rubber.Keeping the buy in price around $25k would be nice. I will have to keep my eyes and ears open.I'm not in any hurry.

A real dedicated track/race car would be nice.

[StephanAlfa]

I have never been a fan of VW's,(no offense to the VW lovers)

How can you NOT be???
Look-at-this-marvelous-dangling-picture-here...
Also: no water required... :thumbleft:

This is my brother in law VW (in Brazil) = 2,3 litre, 195 HP, Porsche wheels, will drag race you, out race you and do loops on you... sheep in lion's skin...

[breakaway500]

A VW bug sideways on a track just doesn't look right As a youngster the only bug I ever saw moving faster than a snail was Herbie.

I actually did admire the Vdubbs from afar..and that's the way I'd like to keep it.

There is a VW bus somewhere in Europe or GB that terrorises the tracks over there. I have watched a few videos and am amazed at the cornering speeds of such a vehicle.


Proof positive that anything can be made to go fast with enough determination and guile.

[enjoythemusic]

Stephan,

Nice! In my early 20's my room mate drove/tweaked VWs. He would mod 'em, install the bigger rear cover to fit the engines in the car... One day i remember coming home and he had en engine all apart on my real wood (read: $$$$) dining room table(!). While i was not amused, he really was a great mechanic and awesome guy (and good surfer, we'd strap boards to the roof of da 'Dub and go surfing).

Have many great memories with thrashing around VWs in the dirt and mud in high school in the back woods. Got 'em airborne and everything

Oh yeah, VWs are a GREAT fun time!

BTW: the older i get the more the leaning towards 'gimme anything with 4 wheels that are safe and a racetrack to drive her on'.

BTW2: The VW Rabbit does REALLY GREAT in SCCA racing. Those lil Rabbits have something in he bag of tricks to win so many SCCA races.

[breakaway500]

Uh oh...there's a formula car on Ebay..with a really nice trailer too.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... :IT&ih=014

[enjoythemusic]

Same car is on www.ApexSpeed.com. He is asking around $33k or thereabouts NOT including trailer. Considering all the spare bits/gears/rims/aero/etc, a good deal given the condition. Another $15k or so give or take depending on who does the labor and you'd have a Zetec car.

Who will step up and grab her? If you need a data acqusition system and can wait, i'll be dumping my Pi2 system this winter for a fully modern system with brake pressure and MAYBE shock analysis plus the usual throt/press/steer/etc.

PS: when you Zetec her you can sell the Pinto engine/bits for about $2500 or so.

[breakaway500]

The Ebay auction is just for the car.It's a bit misleading with pics of the trailer included in the auction. I emailed him on how the car is currently set up for the driver size-wise,but have received no answer. It looks like a nice turn key package to get into formula style racing. The car looks to be well assembled and tidy.So is the trailer,which is a steal for $9k.I paid that for mine bare.The off Ebay ad says all equipment included. The car seems to have a lot of spare support components .Sure wish it was a bit closer...

The pedal box looks very tight. My size 12's may not fit down there in proper footwear.

Is the Pinto motor most formulas use the 2.3L version? I think Pintos also had a 1.6L and a 2.0L as well. The only Pintos I used to pay attention to had V-8's in them.

Do all formula Fords use the same transaxle?Are they all sequential?


Is there a basic Zetec conversion kit,like motor mounts,bellhousing,clutch setup etc offered by any company or is it DIY?

A supercharged intercooled 2.0 Zetec (Focus motor with forged Eagle rods,JE forged pistons,Massive stage 3 cyl head,Crower Stage 2 blower cams),would be a snappy dependable powerplant for a 1K. lb car.

Can the transaxle /axles/hubs handle about 250lbs of sustained torque with some reasonable dependability?

[enjoythemusic]

I emailed him on how the car is currently set up for the driver size-wise,but have received no answer.

The specs i gave earlier in the thread should be your guide, as it is the same basic chassis as my car. If you will be at the Aug 23/24 SCCA event at NHMS you are welcome to try my car for fitttment.

The car seems VERY WELL sorted and the guys on Apex Speed seem to agree on that note. More than HALF the battle is KNOWING who owned/prepared the car before you bought it. REMEMBER: cheap car now usually equals $$$$ later. Many a racer has learned that lesson the hard way. Also, DO NOT minimize the value of a great spares package. i have been saved (and WON one) race weekend event by having the spares with me.

The pedal box looks very tight. My size 12's may not fit down there in proper footwear.

That MIGHT be a tough call, though you can fit in various pedal boxed and perhaps rework what is there.

Is the Pinto motor most formulas use the 2.3L version? I think Pintos also had a 1.6L and a 2.0L as well. The only Pintos I used to pay attention to had V-8's in them.

FC = 2L Pinto/Kent engine (or the modern 2L Zetec).

Do all formula Fords use the same transaxle?Are they all sequential?

FCs all use the same Hewland 'H' pattern shifter. It is VERY easy to shift, maintain, gets parts for, etc. Frankly, i'd take that over the sequential for overall ease. Sequential is for, well...

Is there a basic Zetec conversion kit,like motor mounts,bellhousing,clutch setup etc offered by any company or is it DIY?

Yes per se. Glenn Philips at GTP Motorsports can provide you with all the major bits. He can also do the conversion for reasonable $$$ and he has done quite a few so he KNOWS the things to do and look out for. And yes, he is also my racecar engineer, was the VD importer for years, ran the #1 F2000 Champ team, etc. He is a GREAT guy to know, but remember his time is short and he helps truly PRO teams/drivers during the year. Frankly, a guy like me is small beans compared to the teams/drivers he has assisted over the years. As such, he IS NOT a guy you 'time suck' for advice and help per se. Lastly, he will be doing the conversion on th FC here this winter. The cost to convert versus the resale value of the car afterwards is VERY equitable. If one considers a racecar such an an FC an investment, there is MANY benefits of an FC while other types of cars seem to sell at reduced rates with little future to move up the ladder should you decide to have a future in upper league racing. As i DO NOT know your history, my HUGE apologies oif you are a retired F5000/GP2 driver.

A supercharged intercooled 2.0 Zetec (Focus motor with forged Eagle rods,JE forged pistons,Massive stage 3 cyl head,Crower Stage 2 blower cams),would be a snappy dependable powerplant for a 1K. lb car.

OK, but then you can not race the car in SCCA. If you want COMSCC fun, then it would be a thrill ride for sure Still, you COULD mod the FC to be an F1000 car using a motorsysle engine (a discussion that is a can of worms).

Can the transaxle /axles/hubs handle about 250lbs of sustained torque with some reasonable dependability?

Dunno about the alxe, but the tranny will NOT be happy. You want a Formula Atlantic setup for that kind of power. If you want a screamer of a car, then perhaps go DSR or Formula Atlantic (FA). DSR is a closed wheel car and this would allow you to run with more HPDE clubs if you do not care about SCCA racing. Budget accordingly as the OVERALL cost to buy/operate vs the car's speed/capabilities reaches the point of diminishing returns...

IMO the FC is a great place to be for price/performance. They are also good 'stepping stone' cars to learn with, like a Miata per se. Have seen guys show up in cars they had NO BUSINESS being behind the wheel in. Too much car, too little talent. Am NOT referring to you of course, just that these cars, even a 'lowly' FC, is a lot of car for the $$$ and is VERY capable of doing fast laps... or hitting the wall at tremendous speeds thereby knocking off $15,000 in parts within a second.

Perhaps it is best you call someone as figure out just what you want to do and what initial and continual financial outlay you are willing to absorb.