Wheels; lighter is better,but at what cost?

[breakaway500]

I am shopping for a set of spare wheels and have found two that fit the bill.
They are both 16x7 4 lug lightweight designs,4.25" bolt pattern.(42mm offset)

The Motegis are forged,weigh 12lbs and cost $250 each/shipped.

The Enkeis are cast,weigh 16lbs and cost $110 each/shipped.

My current Kazeras weigh 14.5lbs. are cast,and cost $110 when I bought them.However they are no longer available.I like them a lot.

Can't seem to find anything lighter than 16lbs. that does not cost twice as much.

Is 4lbs per rim lighter worth more than twice as much or is it really not that important?
The total rim/tire combo currently weighs 33lbs.

Or does it really come down to if you can afford it,go for it?

Thanks for the help.

[StephanAlfa]

IMHO I think not. For the type of track activity that you do a few pounds more or less (when you need to foucs on line and getting it faster) is not going to matter a whole lot.
What I would suggest is to get wheels that are reliable and won't crack. This is key.

[WillM]

Lighter is better, but spend your money wisely. Makes no sense to pay big bucks for the lightest wheels if you haven't already invested in suspension, brakes, etc.

Look into Rota Circuit 8 wheels or Rota Slipstream wheels. Both are cast, fairly sturdy, yet fairly light. If Rota made the circuit 8 in 15x7 when I started buying wheels, I would have gone that way.

I don't envy the 4x108 bolt pattern, what an oddball PITA to deal with.

Light, durable, inexpensive. Not very likely. You'll have to put it in relative terms:

Relatively light
Relatively durable
Relatively inexpensive

Cast Rotas, Kazera, and Kosei wheels seem to fit those guidelines.

Of your options above, I'd go with the Enkeis.

[chaos4NH]

Another suggestion, troll the various forum market places for some used wheels. I scored a set of Enkie RPO1's (15 # in 17x7) for under $350 from the SCCA Market place.

[TroyV]

Hey Mark...you could also try using a 2" or 3" hole saw on the inside portion of the stock wheels to remove weight...I'm sure that'll make you faster.


...hey....you never know......throw some run-flats on there...


but seriously....I had considered running a lightweight wheel, but I didn't for two reasons.... Reason 1....my car is so heavy that it probably would make next to no difference in the overall scheme of things, and Reason 2....one over cooked turn with a wheel sliding sideways to the curbing could damage a wheel beyond repair. Repairing a wheel these days can be almost as costly as buying a new one, so it would be pricey either way. These are the reasons why I run only 95 Cobra R style wheels on my car..... the 17x9's are 22 pounds, which really isn't bad at all when you consider the car they are on is over 3800..

I vote that order of importance be:

strong/reliable
cost effective
light

[breakaway500]

Will,I did look at the Rotas,however in my size,they are a pound heavier and $60/each more expensive than the Enkeis.

Finding used wheels for my exact needs is difficult due to the odd bolt pattern and size.
Besides,everyone knows all used sets of wheels have at least one square one

Troy...for your pleasure;



Weight is my enemy...

[TroyV]

Where is your commitment level? No array of 3" holes in the floor pan? You must not want to have a light car.

[enjoythemusic]

Is 4lbs per rim lighter worth more than twice as much or is it really not that important?.

As a card carrying member of the more $ than brains club, have been there and done that. Will it help, a resounding yes! As will lighter than stock (slotted) floating rotors with aluminum hats and lighter shock package that allows for ride height adjustment to lowering the car's CG and corner balance things.

How fast can you afford to go? Will those 2x cost rims REALLY lower lap times? Well... yes but... how about durability?

The reality: imo if you are not racing i'd opt for durability. Weight and durability are usually polar opposites UNLESS you got truly exotic metal money... There are MANY ways to lose weight on a car, and yes unsprung rotational mass can be a killer, yet what about the flywheel/clutch/harmonic balancer and other bits that are holding the overall driveline pckage back due to 'excess' weight?

How crazy do you want to go? Odds are there are a few guys here have gone the same route as myself. Fortunately for the guys here, they did not have the best trackable $32k model 308GTS Italian car that 80k can buy. Ask me how i know

Seriously, go for durability. Perhaps one day you may decidec to really go deep into the fun, then a nice open wheel car like a Formula Ford or the like for $12k is an amazing deal for the fun factor (imo).

[zip4zat]

I am shopping for a set of spare wheels and have found two that fit the bill.
They are both 16x7 4 lug lightweight designs,4.25" bolt pattern.(42mm offset)

The Motegis are forged,weigh 12lbs and cost $250 each/shipped.

The Enkeis are cast,weigh 16lbs and cost $110 each/shipped.

My current Kazeras weigh 14.5lbs. are cast,and cost $110 when I bought them.However they are no longer available.I like them a lot.

Can't seem to find anything lighter than 16lbs. that does not cost twice as much.

Is 4lbs per rim lighter worth more than twice as much or is it really not that important?
The total rim/tire combo currently weighs 33lbs.

Or does it really come down to if you can afford it,go for it?

Thanks for the help.

You dont really reap the true benefits of lightened unsprung weight unless you optimize your suspension tuning to it. So unless you are willing to spend the cake to do that, it all comes out in the wash.

Then again, if your committed to suspension tuning the cost of wheels are not that significant

[breakaway500]

I have two sets of wheels for the car now,however I have learned the 18" ghetto wheels/tires weighing in at 42lbs and 25.5" in height really make a huge difference on the braking,acceleration and turn in of the car. It feels like CRAP with them on. OK for street duty(or rain) but not on track.

The 22.5" tall, 33lb combo really makes the car feel...sporty.

I'm sure it is a combination of the added weight and taller tire diameter that saps the performance,just not sure how much each factor is contributing to the whole equation.

That is why I am cautious about using a wheel (the Enkie's)that weighs more than what I am happy with.

However,what's a few pounds gonna really do?

[WillM]

At the end of the day, a few pounds per corner will not make THAT much of a difference. If you are running boat anchors and increase the overall diameter of the tire, the difference is big.

In a light, comparatively low hp car, changing the overall diameter of the tire will have a much bigger effect on acceleration than a few pounds per wheel.

[breakaway500]

Ok,looks like I'll do the Enkeis.I figure a spare set of wheels/tires is a good thing to have as one cut tire can end your day without backups.

Thanks for all the help!

[offcamber09]

This is a long-shot- but that 4x4.25" bolt pattern is old school Mustang (1985-1993). It was a difficult bolt pattern in the day, and must be worse now. The solution on the Mustangs was switching to 5 lug hubs from a newer Mustang (5x4.5 is very popular). In the early to mid '90s the SCCA American Sedan Mustangs were required to run 16x8 rims and most were 4x4.25"- those rims are out there- somewhere- and are being used as wood pile tarp hold downs! Good Luck!

[breakaway500]

16x8" rims would be ideal for my tires! I do have some 4 lug Mustang rims in 17" I use on the car,but only for autocross, as the offset is wrong and the car is a...handfull at speed with them.

[enjoythemusic]

However,what's a few pounds gonna really do?

Ok, since you asked...

It is not ONLY the weight, you have to factor in WHERE the weight is located pertaining to how far away from the center (hub) PLUS rolling resistance of the tire itself and other factors. If you crunch the math, a lighter wheel with the weight further away from the center may be EQUAL IN PERFORMANCE to a heavier wheel which has more of the rotational mass closer to the center (hub). The key word is MAY because you still have more weight that the springs/shocks have to deal with...

Then you have the width of the tires that touch the road (plus rubber formulation type) due to the rolling resistance to factor in. Therefore sometimes a wider tire could mean SLOWER overall times versus a less wide rubber. Add to the mix a (relatively) wider tire could be faster at twisty tracks like NHMS (in CC config) or LRP where mechanical grip is key whereas a slimmer tire may be better for tracks with long straight bits like WGI where a reduced rolling resistance (and reduced mechanical grip yet some aero grip at speed is allowable) produces an OVERALL lower lap time.

The same can be said for your suspension package, as in the F2000 i can change the suspension package to have wider or more narrow track width, but wow i really do not want to 'go there' for the moment.

Have you ever worked with a suspension engineer? A brake engineer? An engineer who specializes in compete packages of the above?

How crazy and deep do you want to go here? Got cash?

My point: how fast can you afford to go? How much money are you truly willing to <cough>invest<cough> and then comes the reality of someone such as myself to ADMIT to the talent level they have, or will achieve, to take full advantage of the variables.

Am NOT an expert here in ANY sense, yet have had the blessings to have been around and had long discussions with those who are truly talented drivers/engineers. Am right now working with perhaps the #1 or #2 guy in the USA for F2000 and my shock guy works for a very top NASCAR team, and my other guy...

Money does not buy everything, sometimes it is who you know...

So, getting back to your original question of what would a few pounds do. Well, it is measurable and depending on the TQ (and HP) / weight ratio of the car. The added weight could be a lot or a little. Frankly, go durability for the time being. You wallet will be happier and if you have a track off the odds are in your favor that the rim will survive.

And yes, am avoiding the whole 16" versus 17" rim size and factoring in how your tires ARE part of the suspension package as is the tires' sidewall stiffness factor...