rule change proposal: carpet removal for cage installation

[JackFFR1846]

IMO, installing any rollcage is inherently at odds with the principles of the showroom stock classes, if showroom stock is intended for "daily driver" street vehicles. Once you install a roll cage, a fire system, racing seat(s) and harnesses, it may still pass inspection and be street legal but it will no longer be a "showroom" car, imo.

Fred F

I do not agree with this as a basis for restriction. Personally, I think about the "must have to win" modifications vs the "optional" mods. Adding safety items that will not increase the competitiveness of a car should be allowed.

I believe that undercoating and sound deadening material applied to the body of a car is free, even in ss. Having stripped both a Neon and my CRX of some of this material, I know that it can weigh significantly more than the carpet. So a legal weight reduction will certainly outweigh removal of carpet with replacement of a cage.

On the other hand....if the cage stiffens the chassis, it adds performance. But present COM rules lean towards allowing added safety even if some chassis stiffness advantage is gained. I think if we're going to require carpeting, make it free so any carpeting can be used.

jack

[boltonite]

I do not agree with this as a basis for restriction.
jack

Not sure what restriction you are referring to but I was simply pointing out that preserving a cars "showroom" condition is inherently at odds with installing a roll cage. The SCCA, BMWCCA, and COMSCC all make "showroom" concessions when it comes to safety in stock classes.

Removing the back seat and/or the carpeting (various pieces vs all carpeting) seems to be the issue, and is similar to allowing no passenger seat as long as you have a petty bar (in COM only - not okay in SCCA or BMW club racing stock classes). Some folks view seat/carpet removal as "class creep" and not in the spirit of stock car classification.
Fred F

[dreeves]

I believe that undercoating and sound deadening material applied to the body of a car is free, even in ss. Having stripped both a Neon and my CRX of some of this material, I know that it can weigh significantly more than the carpet.

I don't see this in the rules for either SS or ST. Did I miss something?

[kfoote]

Rear carpet and padding removal is currently legal in ST per section X paragraph 1. Sound deadening removal in SS and ST is not legal except as part of the rear seat carpeting in ST classes.

[dreeves]

Rear carpet and padding removal is currently legal in ST per section X paragraph 1. Sound deadening removal in SS and ST is not legal except as part of the rear seat carpeting in ST classes.

What, exactly, does it mean for the sound deadening to be 'part of the rear seat carpeting?'

In my car, much of the sound deadening is under the rear seat itself, and has nothing to do with the carpet.

[WillM]

What, exactly, does it mean for the sound deadening to be 'part of the rear seat carpeting?'

In my car, much of the sound deadening is under the rear seat itself, and has nothing to do with the carpet.

In some cars the sound deadening is glued to the back of the carpeting.

Removal of the sound deadening under the rear seat in your car, as you describe it, would not be legal in SS or ST, as you describe it.

FYI, the rule proposal above did not pass and will not be ammended to the 2006 rule book.