Brake pad recommendations- heavy car, small brakes
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Brake pad recommendations- heavy car, small brakes
Anyone else who is in a similar situation: a 3000+ lb. car, and ~11" diameter front brakes?
I'm only a month or so away from going through with a front brake rotor/caliper upgrade to a 13.5" or so diameter front rotor, but prior to altering my overall front/rear brake bias and opening up another modifications can o' worms, I'd like to maximize the effectiveness and fade resistance of the current set up.
So far I've had decent results with ATE Super Blue fluid and Ferodo DS3000 pads, but unf. the set that I bought were used with only about 40% pad left on them. Prior to Calabogie I plan on bleeding and refilling with ATE's gold version of Super Blue, finally swapping over the braided lines from my old GVR4, making sure the slotted rotors on it are in spec., perhaps getting them resurfaced, removing the front splash shields, and putting together some basic brake cooling ducts from the well-placed foglight openings.
This will hopefully all maximize the cooling capacity of the stock brake rotor diameter,so all that's left to do is to choose a brake pad. On my list right now are Ferodos, Carbotechs XPs (not sure what # compound I'd pick), Porterfield R4Es, or maybe Hawk Blues. I'm willing to give up some overall bite and friction for resistance to fade and consistent operation in a fairly wide range of temperatures. I'm not worried about noise and brake dust, and can live with a pad that doesn't stop terribly well when it's cold. This car warms up brake pads in a hurry.
Any BTDT experience from folks who have tracked heavy cars with small brakes is appreciated. WRXs sort of fall into that category (~3000lbs. and 11.5" front rotors, I think?), as I sure do some other cars that folks bring to COMSCC events. At Calabogie last year I came off at about 15-20 minutes into a :30 session with front brakes smoking, pad material burning away, and went through a set of about 75-80% material-left Hawk HPS pads over the course of the weekend. I was silly to run that pad, for sure, but it's what I had at the time.
What pad should I be prepared with this time? Thanks in advance,
I'm only a month or so away from going through with a front brake rotor/caliper upgrade to a 13.5" or so diameter front rotor, but prior to altering my overall front/rear brake bias and opening up another modifications can o' worms, I'd like to maximize the effectiveness and fade resistance of the current set up.
So far I've had decent results with ATE Super Blue fluid and Ferodo DS3000 pads, but unf. the set that I bought were used with only about 40% pad left on them. Prior to Calabogie I plan on bleeding and refilling with ATE's gold version of Super Blue, finally swapping over the braided lines from my old GVR4, making sure the slotted rotors on it are in spec., perhaps getting them resurfaced, removing the front splash shields, and putting together some basic brake cooling ducts from the well-placed foglight openings.
This will hopefully all maximize the cooling capacity of the stock brake rotor diameter,so all that's left to do is to choose a brake pad. On my list right now are Ferodos, Carbotechs XPs (not sure what # compound I'd pick), Porterfield R4Es, or maybe Hawk Blues. I'm willing to give up some overall bite and friction for resistance to fade and consistent operation in a fairly wide range of temperatures. I'm not worried about noise and brake dust, and can live with a pad that doesn't stop terribly well when it's cold. This car warms up brake pads in a hurry.
Any BTDT experience from folks who have tracked heavy cars with small brakes is appreciated. WRXs sort of fall into that category (~3000lbs. and 11.5" front rotors, I think?), as I sure do some other cars that folks bring to COMSCC events. At Calabogie last year I came off at about 15-20 minutes into a :30 session with front brakes smoking, pad material burning away, and went through a set of about 75-80% material-left Hawk HPS pads over the course of the weekend. I was silly to run that pad, for sure, but it's what I had at the time.
What pad should I be prepared with this time? Thanks in advance,
-Jim B.
GVR4 280/1000
GVR4 280/1000
JIm, the Grocery Getter weighs in at 3300+, but has some nice sized rotors and pads, 12.6" front rotors. I run Carbotech XP8's on the front and am extremely pleased with the consistency in braking and lack of fade. Checking the Carbotech product specs show I should be using XP10s for my weight of car and speeds generated.
A call to Carbotech will get you some great advice as what is best for your car. 1-877-899-5024
A call to Carbotech will get you some great advice as what is best for your car. 1-877-899-5024
Sam
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
For Carbotech pads, I prefer to deal with Eric at www.Brakeswap.com. I'd also consider a set of dedicated track rotors.
Subaru Legacy GT #67
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
"Track time is my enemy"
- Frank Perron
"I remember when sex was safe and racing was dangerous."
I have been running Carbortech XP12's for the last couple of track events. They stand up to the beating, and have lasted me longer than expected with my tubby 3800lb plus machine. I did have to install some decent ducts though. The pads I just finished off at Summit Point last weekend had 7 track days on them, which for this car is pretty darned good.
On a side note, the pad dust is very manageable and comes off very easily, and can also get wet without caking on the wheels or car.
I used my street rotors last weekend. Once the XP's are bedded in once, they come in just fine on a rotor that has a flat surface, even if it wasn't originally bedded to that rotor.
On a side note, the pad dust is very manageable and comes off very easily, and can also get wet without caking on the wheels or car.
I used my street rotors last weekend. Once the XP's are bedded in once, they come in just fine on a rotor that has a flat surface, even if it wasn't originally bedded to that rotor.
Troy Velazquez
#5 T50
#5 T50
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I was running the Porterfield R4's until this year ( Ran r4s's for Ax)--I just switched to the Hawk Blues and absoloutley love them Better initial bite and seem to be wearing better than the porterfields.
I run the Super Blue/ AT200 stuff---but it does not seem to hold up under heavy braking tracks ( ie: WGI) --I ran Motul in the past at WGI and did not have the same issues (Turbo is too close to the master cyl)
2900 ish lbs w/ me in it
Try http://www.raceshopper.com/ --Syracuse /utica SCCA guy.
I run the Super Blue/ AT200 stuff---but it does not seem to hold up under heavy braking tracks ( ie: WGI) --I ran Motul in the past at WGI and did not have the same issues (Turbo is too close to the master cyl)
2900 ish lbs w/ me in it
Try http://www.raceshopper.com/ --Syracuse /utica SCCA guy.
DJ
# 381 T60 BMW 318
2011 Ram 1500
1972 Datsun 510
350Z Nismo--It died a miserable death........
# 381 T60 BMW 318
2011 Ram 1500
1972 Datsun 510
350Z Nismo--It died a miserable death........
DJ, if it doesn't stand up at WGI, better get some other stuff for Calabogie! WGI has lot's of cool down stretches, Calabogie is a heavy braking track IMO.91rs13 wrote:I was running the Porterfield R4's until this year ( Ran r4s's for Ax)--I just switched to the Hawk Blues and absoloutley love them Better initial bite and seem to be wearing better than the porterfields.
I run the Super Blue/ AT200 stuff---but it does not seem to hold up under heavy braking tracks ( ie: WGI) --I ran Motul in the past at WGI and did not have the same issues (Turbo is too close to the master cyl)
2900 ish lbs w/ me in it
Try http://www.raceshopper.com/ --Syracuse /utica SCCA guy.
Sam
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Jim,
Contact me if you are interested in my 1G (5-lug) 13" Stoptech setup. I don't need it anymore and want to get rid of it. The ST-40 calipers were replaced last fall, so they're new. I've got the Axxis Ultimates for street use, and 3-day old Carbotech XP12 track pads with more paterial left than the Ferodos I gave you last year.
I want to sell this setup soon, and was going to post it for sale on the GVR4 forums sometime this week. I'll wait to hear from you before I do. The kit cost me $1650 brand new, plus another $300 for the track pads. We can discuss pricing offline.
Are you going to make it to the July event at NHMS?
-Cy
Contact me if you are interested in my 1G (5-lug) 13" Stoptech setup. I don't need it anymore and want to get rid of it. The ST-40 calipers were replaced last fall, so they're new. I've got the Axxis Ultimates for street use, and 3-day old Carbotech XP12 track pads with more paterial left than the Ferodos I gave you last year.
I want to sell this setup soon, and was going to post it for sale on the GVR4 forums sometime this week. I'll wait to hear from you before I do. The kit cost me $1650 brand new, plus another $300 for the track pads. We can discuss pricing offline.
Are you going to make it to the July event at NHMS?
-Cy
-Cy
99 Spec Miata (SM/STU/STL/EP)
2011, 2013, 2014 NER STU Champion
99 Spec Miata (SM/STU/STL/EP)
2011, 2013, 2014 NER STU Champion
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Thanks for the very useful replies, folks. I may give the Carbotech XP12s a try with Motul fluid. Change and trying out proven stuff is a good thing.
Cy, I doubt I can afford the kind of coin you should get for that Stoptech kit when you do sell it. I'd go ahead and list it on the GVR4 board. When I'm ready I'm going to give the camaro/corvette/cobra caliper/rotor conversion a try to see what kind of results I get with that. Only thing left to buy there is the rotors (cheap) and pads (track pads not-so-cheap).
Cy, I doubt I can afford the kind of coin you should get for that Stoptech kit when you do sell it. I'd go ahead and list it on the GVR4 board. When I'm ready I'm going to give the camaro/corvette/cobra caliper/rotor conversion a try to see what kind of results I get with that. Only thing left to buy there is the rotors (cheap) and pads (track pads not-so-cheap).
-Jim B.
GVR4 280/1000
GVR4 280/1000
YET another opinion. XP12's sucked for all three STI's at Tremblant couple years ago. They wore unevenly and were completely down to the backing plate in a day and half, and when I took them out, they crumbled. This could be an older run of crappy XP12's, but I've since switched to Pagids and PFC's, which I like better.
Raj
Raj
#66 SuperSlowGT
Silver 2004 Nissan 350Z
Silver 2004 Nissan 350Z
- StephanAlfa
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DJ:
Motul and Carbotech works for me big time... I NEVER have brake fade. Also use a heat shield wrap around the master cylinder to prevent the additional heat coming from the exhaust manifold.
Hope this helps.
Motul and Carbotech works for me big time... I NEVER have brake fade. Also use a heat shield wrap around the master cylinder to prevent the additional heat coming from the exhaust manifold.
Hope this helps.
Stephan de Pénasse - Classroom Instructor - http://www.comscc.org
2001 BMW 330i Sports Package (T-60 Class)
2001 BMW 330i Sports Package (T-60 Class)
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