Towing - Diesel vs Gas

Mark Swinehart · Post by **Mark Swinehart** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:56 pm

SSNH -

If you can buy diesel at a "good" price how come the tank is never full when I borrow your truck?

eastcoastbumps · Post by **eastcoastbumps** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:12 am

Towing - Its expensive no matter what fuel you use!

ctkag · Post by **ctkag** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:40 am

A lot has to do with matching the tow vehicle to the weight of the trailer. If you're at the upper end of your towing capacity, your fuel mileage will be abysmal.

I usually don't mind driving the F250 diesel every day - the empty summer fuel mileage is almost identical to my 4.0l Ranger. Winter fuel knocks close to 4mpg off (also due to having the hubs locked in the winter).

I've got all my fuel mileage records in the truck - I'll play with Mick's spreadsheet and see how it looks for me.

boltonite · Post by **boltonite** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:23 pm

I regretted selling my 2500 Suburban (454ci) after getting an enclosed trailer. The F250 Turbo Diesel has more grunt but it was a rude change in terms of smell, noise, vibration and handling compared w/ the Suburban. If I had to do it over again I'd look into a high-end van -- I know one guy who has a "ambulance" type van that tows and rides well, is designed to carry heavy loads, and has a ton of storage.

Fwiw, the main issue w/ towing (imo) is having enough mass and brakes to deal w/ the 2-4 tons that is literally right behind your head. I know of one guy who had to stop suddenly (traffic was backed up), rear-ended another vehicle, and the race car broke free and came thru the back window and killed him. I've had more scary moments towing my race car than racing it.

FF

offcamber09 · Post by **offcamber09** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:46 pm

2000 Yukon XL 2500 6.0 gas + 3000# car + open trailer = 10 mpg at 70-75 mph.

Fred mentioned the handling difference- the Ford 250 and 350 are insanely harsh and the handling is borderline unsafe imo.

Also diesel "should" increase in price more dramatically than gas since the refineries in the US are geared towards gas production and not diesel. We've seen $4.20/gal diesel today on the north shore.

Thanks for the spreadsheet Mick. Between that and the website work- do you have a job?

enjoythemusic · Post by **enjoythemusic** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:29 pm

boltonite wrote:I've had more scary moments towing my race car than racing it.
FF

Hmmm, never had much of and real problems with the F250 and towing the 21 ft enclosed windsail and F2000. The Ranger with the open trailr and ferrari had one or two moments, but nothing too bad. i usually keep good distance between myself and the vehicle ahead of me and ALWAYS make sure i have PLENTY of brakes. Of course there are ALWAYS many other drivers around me who drive like idiots, so i fall way back or pass them fast. American drivers need to get a clue compared to their European counterparts.

offcamber09 wrote:Fred mentioned the handling difference- the Ford 250 and 350 are insanely harsh and the handling is borderline unsafe imo.

The new 2008 has longer rear leafs, but yes is is a bit stiff compared to an F150. During a test drive of the F150 i felt like it was a couch on wheels and hated it. Desire to at least have some feel/feedback and the 2008 F250 is a bit stiff yet very manageable. Of course almost anything is more comfy than the Formula 2000. Amazing how tracks felt with the Ferrari as compared to the F2000, especially LRP. First time down the front straight at speed in the F2000 was a shocker/rocker.

Anywho guess what i am saying is that yes the F250 is a bit stiff, though perhaps the 2008 is less so per se due to using longer leafs than earlier version??? Love my F250 SD, she is amazing towing, for off road, daily driving, etc... but like everyone we wish it got better than 12mpg towing gas milage. Even with puny 5.4L gasser and 3.73 rear ratio it manhandles the21 ft windsail even on VT RT9.

johngeorge · Post by **johngeorge** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:52 am

2002 Chevy Silverado Diesel 3500 Dualy towing a 35' toy hauler with the FFR cobra in it, and get about 10mpg doing 72mph. I have weighed the truck with trailer (racecar in trailer) at a one of those truck stop scale and ended up being ~24,000lb... dont even want to think what it would be towing with a gas engine, probably more like 5mpg.

johngeorge · Post by **johngeorge** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:53 am

my fuel bill is close to 1/2 of my racing budget for the year..

enjoythemusic · Post by **enjoythemusic** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:50 am

johngeorge wrote:2002 Chevy Silverado Diesel 3500 Dualy towing a 35' toy hauler with the FFR cobra in it, and get about 10mpg doing 72mph. I have weighed the truck with trailer (racecar in trailer) at a one of those truck stop scale and ended up being ~24,000lb... dont even want to think what it would be towing with a gas engine, probably more like 5mpg.

Excellent point! Always match up the towing vehicle (and brakes) with what you are hauling. 24k lbs would be a total no-go with my puny setup. Then again am only towing about 4.5k lbs and the truck is 4.5k lbs.

Wow, 24k lbs! Most impressive!

Grippy · Post by **Grippy** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:33 am

2005 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L gas V6, 6 sp manual pulling a Trailex aluminum open trailer with Miata. I usually get between 13 and 16mpg pending the route and speed driven. I feel this is a cost effective soultion due to the lower cost of the truck and respectable mileage. It is also my daily driver and fairly fun. Towing with a manual can be a pain in traffic, but I can live with it for the 8 times a year I tow vs. the rest of the year I drive it. It does take a bit or rowing thru the gears going to Tremblant thru VT.

DanDarcy · Post by **DanDarcy** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:44 pm

My trailer with the heavy Mustang weighs 12,000# I tow with a 1996 Chevy K2500 ext. cab with a 5.7 liter (350 cu. in.) V8. I only get 8 mpg doing about 70- 72 mph. I know one of the diesel pickups from work would do better but they are standard cabs and standard transmissions. I know if I do Watkins Glen , my fuel bill for the tow rig will be about $275-. if I use a diesel it will be about $195-

SSNH · Post by **SSNH** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:10 pm

good thing i have a diesel.

jrussell · Post by **jrussell** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:21 pm

I have a 1997 F250 diesel (2wd) and towed a 48' open trailer with 2 Miatas from Burlington, VT to NHIS and back. I got 16 MPG. 20 MPG unloaded with summer fuel like many others are saying. I estimate the trailer weight to have been 10000# but that's only an estimate, I didn't weigh it.

Another trip from Burlington, VT to Morristown, NY (out toward Mosport) with 2 RX7's on the same trailer (non-highway trip) I also got 16 MPG. I would guess the trailer weight was another 2k# more than with the Miatas.

If you tow a lot and anything moderately to extremely heavy I think the diesel is much better. If you only tow to a couple of events a year a gas truck it probably better. Though I really dislike towing with a gas truck now after having a diesel.

For what it's worth the 2003-2004 Chevy/GM Duramax 2500's get quite a bit better mileage. 21 MPG stock and 23-24 MPG with a ECU reflash and turbo back exhaust. Ford has continually dropped their MPG every new engine they release. I don't know of a decent 2008+ diesel engine made... they all are having problems due to the regulation changes.

Also just to shed some light on the oil prices... don't look at the price of oil in USD per barrel... look at it in a stable currency. Oil isn't going up, our currency is going to sh!t because the Fed is flooding the market with USDs and driving up inflation. It's really a hidden tax we never realize we are paying. This doesn't help our racing budgets at all, but just do some research before you place the blame on the oil price.

mr2sc · Post by **mr2sc** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:07 am

jrussell wrote:Also just to shed some light on the oil prices... don't look at the price of oil in USD per barrel... look at it in a stable currency. Oil isn't going up, our currency is going to sh!t because the Fed is flooding the market with USDs and driving up inflation. It's really a hidden tax we never realize we are paying. This doesn't help our racing budgets at all, but just do some research before you place the blame on the oil price.

I just want to add to this, that here in Quebec, 'regular' was 1.24.7/liter this morning. That roughly works out to $5/US gal!

So what the heck has happened to our strengthened CAD $$ vs the USD per barrel?

Post by **chaos4NH** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:31 pm

mr2sc wrote:
jrussell wrote:Also just to shed some light on the oil prices... don't look at the price of oil in USD per barrel... look at it in a stable currency. Oil isn't going up, our currency is going to sh!t because the Fed is flooding the market with USDs and driving up inflation. It's really a hidden tax we never realize we are paying. This doesn't help our racing budgets at all, but just do some research before you place the blame on the oil price.
I just want to add to this, that here in Quebec, 'regular' was 1.24.7/liter this morning. That roughly works out to $5/US gal!

So what the heck has happened to our strengthened CAD $$ vs the USD per barrel?

Right on Tommy. I don't buy into this "the price of oil flows with the value of the dollar". Very strange how, in the past, US Presidents have wined and dined the oil barons, convinced them to increase production, and viola! the price drops (supply and demand my friends). We need to get it into the heads of the politicians (BOTH parties) that we have enough oil domestically to support our needs for 100's of years. That we DON'T need the arab oil princes. The idea of a US domestic oil policy has been kicked around by both parties for 40 years, with NOTHING being accomplished.
I saw diesel up in Newport NH at $4.41/gallon today.

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